308 cast

rodmkr

rodmkr

Temecula California
OK,
Took the bull barrel 308 to the range today.
Lee C312-155-2R bullets, 13 grains of red dot.
Bullets sized to .309
100 yards almost shot gun pattern.
Very frustrated fired last 6 rounds at 300 yards just so not have to break them down when I got home.
Took 2 to get on target and last 4 you could cover with a 3/4 dollar bill.
Frustration even worse now.
Is it possible the bullet sleeps until out past 200?

Now for bass and Ian.
It is a 1-10 twist barrel 22 inches long.
Match chamber with little or no leade
No I didn't do a pound cast as I am a believer the , that is the best way in the world to mess up a barrel.
Putting a steel rad down a barrel and pounding on the end of it is just plain wrong to me.
Shoots 173 grain Sierra Match kings to point of aim at 775 yards which is as far as I have taken it so far.
Will hold a 2 inch group at 775.
Need all the advice I can get as have never in 40 years of cast bullets ever had this happen to me.

Jim
 
Ben

Ben

Moderator
Staff member
I'm very sorry for your " luck " at the range today.
As for me, I've never owned a rifle that shot 13.0 or 13.5 grs. of Red Dot with a .30 cal. cast bullet into anything other than , as you describe, a shotgun pattern.
It is my opinion that the 13.0 Red Dot load is developing a lot more pressure than you think it is. Red Dot is a super quick powder. The pressure curve on that load doesn't work out as well with cast bullets as some of the slower powders ( at least that is my opinion ).

So many other dependable, previously proven accurate loads for the .308 Win, many of which use much slower burn rate powders than RED DOT .

Ben
 
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JWFilips

JWFilips

Well-Known Member
Just from my experience With a cast bullet no .30 caliber rifles has shot well at .309" That is jacketed size.
If it were me I would size .311" if using traditional lube and start at 8 gr Red Dot
 
Ian

Ian

Notorious member
rodmkr said:
Now for bass and Ian.
It is a 1-10 twist barrel 22 inches long.
Match chamber with little or no leade
No I didn't do a pound cast as I am a believer the , that is the best way in the world to mess up a barrel.
Putting a steel rad down a barrel and pounding on the end of it is just plain wrong to me.
Shoots 173 grain Sierra Match kings to point of aim at 775 yards which is as far as I have taken it so far.
Will hold a 2 inch group at 775.
Click to expand...

Huh. Most .308 "match" chambers have a lot of throat and either a really long taper and tight entrance or a long parallel freebore (tight or not) and abrupt leade. I have several .308s and one has a .3095" throat entrance, one is a tick over .309", and one is .308 and a couple of tenths. .310 or .311" isn't always a good choice considering the sharp throat entrance angle, unless your throat is halfway burned out.

"Belief" has nothing to do with the safety of making an impact impression, but following good instructions such as have been enumerated on this site does. There are other methods to explore, too. I don't happen to believe in the 10,000 monkeys/typewriters/Hamlet method, myself, so I cast chambers to see what I have to work with.

If your rifle shoots 1/4 MOA groups at point of aim to 775 yards, it sounds like it puts bullets to sleep. It also sounds like your range is located in a strange place where there is no gravity and no wind. Often, bullets will group better at longer ranges (non-linear dispersion, but the OTHER way than some people like to use the term), but my experience has typically only shown this with really long for caliber bullets or boat tails, not short spitzers like the E.H. bullet.

Waco was lamenting a similar, but less dramatic example of 2 MOA at 100 but just over 1 MOA at 500 with cast bullets at high velocity. "Going to sleep" past 200-300 yards is definitely a thing.
 
Spindrift

Spindrift

Well-Known Member
In my .308, the c312-155-2R sized .309 worked well with 18 grs viht n110. Pan lubed with «simple lube» (thank you, fiver).BHN 17.
 
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Ian

Ian

Notorious member
50/50 COWW/soft scrap, air cooled, powder coated, sized and lubed at .3095" actual, shot in a SAAMI-standard 22" .308 Win 1:10 and 38 grains of IMR 3031 in military brass worked pretty well for me. Lots and lots of ways to get there.
 
quicksylver

quicksylver

Well-Known Member
Jim yuk!! Hate those Kind of days !!OK Here's my 2 pennies 12.7 grains of OLD Red Dot under any good cast bullet sized .311 in ANY of my 6-7 Springfields will shoot sub 1 MOA WITH IRON SIGHTS @100 YDS , Iwill be happy to post pictures of the groups for you it will do under half if i use a scope. Anything over that I too get shotgun patterns, reduce that load by 5% for the .308 that and the slower twist rate should make it shine one, of my favorites in the .308 is a plain base 299 with I believe 9 grains of Unigue ,it shoots a little over.375 @ 100 yds. I think Ben Carrys a picture of that target with him as I use his red lude and over coat
 
Urny

Urny

Missouri Ozarks, heart still in the Ruby Mountains
13 grains Red Dot seemed to me pretty close to the permissible performance edge when I tried it some years back. The #15 rotor on my Lyman Accumeasure throws about 11.2 grains Red Dot, somewhat lot dependent, and that has worked out real well in .308, .30-06, 7.65X53mm Mauser, .303 British and 8X57mm. For me it is a better load than 13 grains.
 
Bass Ackward

Bass Ackward

Active Member
We hammer bullet fit, but for me, that’s more for MOA or below. ( at 1600 - 2000 FPS levels). My 06 has a throat like a basket ball court & I dribble a one diameter, 150 gr LBT, sized .308 a couple a times before it hits the funnel & you really gotta screw up bad to shoot 2” groups. Sounds more like the pressure monster bit ya.

Just checked. “Lyman says”, 13 gr Red Dot is 40.7k psi. Need 30 BHN to survive that. 10 gr is 27.5k again, according to Lyman. You don’t say how hard your bullet is, so the 10 grains should work for ACWW. If it were me, I’d load 3 @ 8, 9, then 10. Three will pinpoint the node for your combo, then you’ll have to load & shoot more if you wanna see load grouping.
 
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CZ93X62

CZ93X62

Official forum enigma
No can help--I have never tried Red Dot in a neck-and-shoulder cartridge of any kind. I like the sound of Urny's and Bass' comments, though.
 
M

M3845708Bama

Active Member
Urny said:
13 grains Red Dot seemed to me pretty close to the permissible performance edge when I tried it some years back. The #15 rotor on my Lyman Accumeasure throws about 11.2 grains Red Dot, somewhat lot dependent, and that has worked out real well in .308, .30-06, 7.65X53mm Mauser, .303 British and 8X57mm. For me it is a better load than 13 grains.
Click to expand...

At least in my bolt,13 gn would require a dead blow hammer to get bolt open. Start low and work up. Red dot is not position sensative and is really fun in the 1700 to1900fps and lower range great plonked load.
 
rodmkr

rodmkr

Temecula California
Wow,
Sorry Ben for not getting back fast enough but sometimes life just gets in the way.
Being an 85 year old stroke survivor with an 89 year old wife with dementia it sometimes just overwhelms me
The rifle will not chamber a 311 bullet and just barely chambers a 309.
In cast a Lee C311-155-2R sized to 309 Will just barely chamber when seated to the crimp grove on the bullet(the end of the 309 area).
The nose area (.300) will engrave in the rifling.

I have tried Red Dot from 10 grains to 13 grains to no avail.
Have tried 4895,4198, 3031 of various favors all to no avail with this rifle so am going to designate it a jacketed only rifle as it shoots the Sierra 173 grain match kings to point of aim at 775 yards and holds a group you can cover with a dollar bill folded in half.

Sorry Bass but to me putting a steel rod down a barrel and pounding on it is a disaster waiting to happen due to the damage you do to the rifling and chamber area so I use cerosafe when I do a chamber I do not know or trust.
Been doing it for 50 plus years that way and haven't ruined a chamber yet.



Jim
 
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