40 S&W

Petrol & Powder

Well-Known Member
I’m certain that I will regret this, but we’ve discussed other handgun cartridges so let’s get this one out of the way.

FULL DISCLOSURE, I am not a fan of the 40 S&W. Some people see the 40 S&W as faster than the 45 ACP and heavier than the 9mm. I see it as slower than the 9mm and lighter than the 45 ACP. :rolleyes:

I’ll try to keep my bias in check.

I think most people on this forum are well aware of the history of the 40 Smith & Wesson, so I will not dwell on that. For those that may be interested, the 40 S&W was developed in response to the 1986 Miami shootout and the subsequent FBI cartridge trials. As a result of those trials, a downloaded 10mm cartridge was selected and that led to a shortened 10mm cartridge that was the 40 S&W. I’ll leave the politics, rabid self-promotion, justification, and blame shifting of that process out of this discussion. (Or at least I’ll try to)

The 40 S&W was conceived in the late 1980’s and commercially introduced in early 1990. It went on to become very successful. U.S. Law Enforcement had already embraced the semi-auto pistol by the time the 40 S&W arrived on the scene. Many agencies that had adopted pistols chambered in 9mm Luger went on to switch to the 40 S&W cartridge. Currently the trend is reversing and there is a resurgence of the 9mm Luger cartridge.

The 40 S&W and its parent cartridge the 10mm Auto utilize the exact same bullet diameter (.400”). From the perspective of nothing more than bullet diameter, the 40 S&W sits perfectly in between the 9mm (.355”) and the 45 ACP (.452”). The 40 S&W cartridge will physically fit in pistol frames roughly the same size as those used for the 9mm, which was an early selling point. However, simply cramming a 40 S&W into a 9mm platform proved to be somewhat problematic. This was something that many pistol manufacturers discovered the hard way. 34 years into the life of the 40 S&W and it seems most pistol manufactures have learned how to design a pistol around the 40 S&W rather than trying to adopt an existing pistol platform to the 40 S&W.

Compared to the 45 ACP, the overall cartridge diameter of the 40 S&W is smaller, thus allowing a greater magazine capacity in the same length magazine.

An interesting contemporary of the 40 S&W was the .41 Action Express, a cartridge that faded out of favor and died almost immediately after the introduction of the 40 S&W. The .41 AE used a slightly larger bullet (.410”) but the casing had a rebated rim that was similar to the 9mm case head.

The 40 S&W is frequently loaded with bullets ranging from 155 grains up to about 180 grains, but there are loads for bullets as light as 135 grains. The typical self-defense loadings are 155-165 grains. There are countless opinions on the relative recoil of the 40 S&W but personally I’ve never considered it to be an issue. In some of the hotter loads, I would characterize the recoil as “snappy” because the recoil impulse seems a bit sharper than say a 45 ACP. It is by no means difficult to control.

Outside of self-defense and some pistol competitions, the cartridge sees few applications. In the world of semi-auto handgun cartridges, the 40 S&W is fairly young. Cartridges such as the 45 ACP, 380 Auto and 9mm Luger pre-date the 40 S&W by over 80 years each. The 10mm Auto, from which the 40 S&W was derived is only slightly older, having been introduced in 1983.

Cartridge designers have been trying to fill the gap between 35 and 45 caliber for over 150 years. In the world of semi-auto pistol cartridges, the 10mm Auto, 41 Action Express, .400 Cor Bon, 40 Super were all efforts to fill that gap around 40 caliber. The 40 S&W was perhaps the most commercially successful of those efforts.

The 40 S&W is in no danger of becoming extinct, but the time of its peak popularity has passed. The cartridge’s developmental history is an unusual departure from the path normally seen. Where many cartridges develop as more powerful versions of their parent cartridge, such as the progression of the 44 Russian to the 44 Special and then the 44 Magnum; the 40 S&W went in the other direction. It was a downloaded version of the 10mm. It is perhaps this developmental path that shapes some of the perception of the 40 S&W. The 40 S&W is certainly not weak as its derogatory 40 “Short & Weak” sobriquet suggests. However, one cannot avoid comparing it to its larger parent cartridge, the 10mm Auto.

Perhaps, the gap between 35 and 45 caliber isn’t really as large as it first appears.
 
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Rushcreek

Well-Known Member
As far as auto pistol rounds go, I like it because it provides a good bit of power for a pocket size carry pistol- in my case a Shield 40 2.0 carry gun.
I guess that I could say the same about the 9mm in my wife’s Shield 9, though…..
 

CWLONGSHOT

Well-Known Member
As we tend to be alot more level headed then other places. :p

I don't expect This to downward spiral. ;)

But glad ta know your thoughts. I dont like 9mm and prefer the 40 and 45. (Heck most other calibers. ;) )

CW
 

300BLK

Well-Known Member
I'll be the contrarian and say that I AM a fan of the 40 S&W. It is what most dislike about the 9mm, but available in similar package. While it has a small magazine capacity advantage vs the 45ACP, it has better sectional density and a sturdy casing. Keep in mind that most 40 S&W data is from 4" vs most 45ACP from 5". 180gr @ 1000fps is no slouch, and that speed can be increased with judicious loading.
 

Dusty Bannister

Well-Known Member
Well shucks, I have the Glock mod 23 which is in 40 S&W and it is reliable and accurate for what I need. But for fun, I bought a conversion barrel to convert to 9MM. Maybe I am like the fella that has 45 ACP brass with both small and large primers, or perhaps the SKS guy that has both large and small primer brass. I suppose I could also be lumped in with the guy that has a 357 mag revolver and shoots both 38 special and 357 magnum, just to make sure I have options.

I realize that we all have a preference, but as long as we can take care of the problem, the rest is just words.
 

david s

Well-Known Member
I like the concept of the 40 S&W as well as the other forgotten round the 45 GAP round. Both were designed to offer smaller framed pistols with rounds ballistically similar to the 10mm FBI load and the 45 ACP. This allows smaller statured personnel a useable pistol in a decent defense cartridge. But I've never owned a pistol in either round. If a CZ 75B in 40 S&W ever shows up locally at a decent price I might on a whim pick it up, or not.
 

LEC Guy

Active Member
Been a few years for the .40 for me. I still have all my loading stuff and Pistols. Never casted bullets for the .40. Purchased Plated and Cast Bullets. Back when I was loading plated bullets were $36 per 1000.

I started out with a S&W 4003. Alloy Frame ex-DPS pistol. It was during the assault weapon ban so I could only get 10 rd. Magazines. Not really a problem as the LE mags held just 2 more at 12 rds. After shooting it for a while I noticed some metal debris at the area where the Barrel fits into the frame. I was loading it with mediocre recipe. Seems the steel barrel was shaving fine amounts of aluminum from the frame. I liked the feel of the gun, its size and everything so I started looking for one with a Steel Frame. In the mean time I purchased a Glock 35 in .40 S&W. Still the Ban days so all the mags were 10 rds. That was fine 10 rds seemed just fine. The gun shot great and I even shot lead out of it thru the Glock Poly Barrel with no problems. I eventually put in an EMF Barrel in .357 Sig and hardly shot .40 anymore. By then the Ban had expired and I found a S&W 4006. It had the standard sights like the 4003. I sold the 4003 and all the 10 rd. magazines. Over time I wanted the better adjustable rear sight I had seen on some 4006 pistols. I looked around and found one of them as well and today they are my favorite .40's to shoot. They are fairly heavy compared to other pistols in the same caliber. I also have a 1006 and it is a bit bigger and in 10mm.

That's my .40 Story.

Bruce
 

JonB

Halcyon member
Let me throw a monkey wrench into this mix :cool:
.
I see the 3 mainstream auto pistol calibers as pretty much the same (9, 40, 45)
I tend to like the 40 bestest, cuz the brass is cheapest. There was a time when they were sellin' 40 brass for cheaper than scrap price. I think I have 6 or 7 buckets (5 gal size) in my stash.
With that said, I do have several 45acp guns, and only one gun in 40, and that is a Hi Point, LOL. So that kind of tells a different story, LOL.
 
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JonB

Halcyon member
Current sales reflect that the 40 S&W is dead. My LGS only brings them in if ordered. Whole slew of 9 mm in the display cases. Glad I didn't jump on the 40 bandwagon.
well, if that's true, then I am likely sitting on a fortune's worth of 40 brass...if I can wait it out, until there is a resurgence, or even just a small cult following willing to pay stupid prices for hard to get brass.
 

Dusty Bannister

Well-Known Member
During the time period when I have been fooling with reloadable LEO range brass, I have seen the changes from 9mm, to 357 Sig, to 40 S&W and back to 9MM again. In the period, I have also seen agencies change to 45 ACP and that makes life interesting. Why are all these agencies making changes? I have no idea, but in my limited observations, the 9mm seems easier for the majority of people to become proficient. Whether it is "the caliber" or the reasonable cost of practice ammo is up to someone else to determine. If there is a "battle" I suspect it is the battle of the budget.
 

LEC Guy

Active Member
Friend of mine worked in Purchasing for Texas DPS and they changed from .357 Sig to 9mm with the prime driver being ammunition cost.

Bruce
 

Joshua

Taco Aficionado/Salish Sea Pirate/Part-Time Dragon
I had a S&W Shield come into my life at a very good price. I payed my co-worker $60 every two weeks, for a couple of months. Then I picked up a few thousand once fired police range cases and bought a Lee 6 cavity 180 grain mold. I run those 180’s over a good dose of Herco.
I carry it when I’m hunting. It’s light and handy. I don’t think a bear, wolf, or cougar would like to be shot with it. I don’t think a human would enjoy that much either.
I like my 40.
I’d pick up another one if it needed a home.
 

popper

Well-Known Member
I cast, reload and shoot both 40sw and 9mm. I prefer the 40sw. Just me I guess. Yup, brass is getting harder to pick up at the range. Bending over to get any brass is getting harder also. Helper her with 6 bags of mulch yesterday, back isn't too bad now.
 

Jeff H

NW Ohio
Not much into auto pistols anymore, but...

I'm not convinced that the forty "died" because it is inferior to the nine, but because of hype.

I'm not implying either cartridge is any better than the other in that assertion either - just saying that it wasn't inferiority that made the sea-change. Its people falling into line with the latest line of BS. Nothing more.

If I were caught short in a pickle and someone tossed me a forty or a nine, I wouldn't stand there and complain.

I've had a few nice forties, one a stainless S$W, which seemed to be related to the old 39/59 and it was a NICE little gun. The one I liked best was a CZ 100, horrid trigger and all, but I think either gun in the nine would have been OK.

I PREFER the forty over the nine for a defensive handgun, but I PREFER a 45 over the forty in a defensive handgun. If I had a nine or forty and was being shot at with a 45, I wouldn't just give up because the other guy had me licked in terms of superior firepower.

Yeah, forty brass was cheap, and got even cheap when everyone suddenly realized it was an ineffectual cartridge (by decree), but since everyone has wised up and got a nine, there won't be a lot of forty brass being made.