43-287B

[freebullet]

O my. ...

Since you & the gun have been proven beyond what we are seeing in this instance I'd go back to finding a baseline for best performance with the design. If your scared to lessen the charge with 110 try another powder.

The constant remains that your pushing the design to fast, removing weight only makes it worse, & we don't know how fast it can go without excessive damage & desired accuracy.

Without a baseline for best performance it's nearly impossible to quantify the changes help or hindrance to it.

 

[358156 hp]

Loose cylinder locking bolts are pretty common in production revolvers anymore. This could give you an intermittent timing/alignment issue that's difficult to pin down. I figure its a deliberate situation, if the cylinder bolt wiggles a little bit it could compensate to some degree for a cylinder that's not fit as finely in some areas as we might expect. This would allow a little play in cylinder alignment with the barrel in case the chambers or throats are off a bit, or even at the hand (pawl) or cylinder ratchet, although I would expect these circumstances to show up more as erratic accuracy when fired double action, rather than single action. I need to add this to my check list as I reassemble my std Redhawk.

 

[Brad]

When I checked cylinder alignment I had the hammer cocked just like it would be when firing. I wiggled the cylinder all I could to see it I could get the rod to slip into the throats. I figure if I couldnt wiggle it to get alignment then why would I expect a fast moving bullet to do so.
I hate to it but maybe I need MORE slop in the cylinder stop? They aren't real expensive to buy and it would be an interesting experiment. Not permanently altering the revolver is also a plus.

 

[Ian]

Try filing your button down to .430" and see if she goes.

 

[358156 hp]

When I checked cylinder alignment I had the hammer cocked just like it would be when firing. I wiggled the cylinder all I could to see it I could get the rod to slip into the throats. I figure if I couldnt wiggle it to get alignment then why would I expect a fast moving bullet to do so.
I hate to it but maybe I need MORE slop in the cylinder stop? They aren't real expensive to buy and it would be an interesting experiment. Not permanently altering the revolver is also a plus.

Try it again, but dryfire the revolver & hold the trigger rearward while checking alignment. The cylinder isn't fully into firing position until the trigger is fully rearward.
https://www.brownells.com/guntech/range-rod/detail.htm?lid=10411

 

[fiver]

I was thinking it might also be worth doing a dry fire from each cylinder with a primer or 1/2-1gr of powder.
just enough oomph to get the bullet into the throat and beyond the cylinder.
you wouldn't even have to size the cases.
this would give you a tangible physical in hand impact from each cylinder to look at.

I ended up doing this in the SIL's pistol in lieu of doing an impact slug just to see stuff.

 

[Brad]

After firing just 30 rounds I got a little lead out of the bore. I'm really thinking the level of accuracy I am getting is amazing. The bullet is getting deformed a bunch and I'm getting leading but they stay on paper at 100.

 

[358156 hp]

After firing just 30 rounds I got a little lead out of the bore. I'm really thinking the level of accuracy I am getting is amazing. The bullet is getting deformed a bunch and I'm getting leading but they stay on paper at 100.

Yes it is. Especially with the 300 gr bullets you used. There are guys not getting that kind of performance with rifles. Still, you know there's more out there, and that's what keeps you going.

 

[Ian]

Didn't get any of those bullets fired this weekend, too many chores . Now the time has changed and it will be dark every day when I get home, so it will have to wait a while.

 

[Brad]

Dark? DARK? Try shooting in 40° weather with a 25 mph wind. Quickly get cold enough to no longer care where the bullets impact. And those are the GOOD days. Pete I am not.

Yeah, dark......

 

[Ian]

Yeah, we're going to get the nasty stuff in a couple of days, oh boy

It was 85 and dead calm this afternoon, gonna miss that until next weekend when it's summer again.

 

[Brad]

I may try and sneak out for a little shooting tomorrow. If nothing else I can fire a few low velocity rounds into the bucket to see if the chambers make a difference.

I may even try a little 4227 it I feel frisky.

 

[Rick]

N-110 will make you feel frisky.

 

[Brad]

N110 makes me feel poor. I need to give it more time but will likely wait till I get better weather. Only having a pound or so left I don't want to waste it. I have many pounds of 4227.

 

[Brad]

Wasn't feeling it today so no range time. I did fire a single round into a bucket of rubber mulch in the garage. Load was 2 gr of Titegroup, just enough to get the bullet thru the bore.
This is the fired bullet. Ignore the roughness in the nose groove, it was caused by initial attempts at cutting the groove. This is the trial bullet.
These are photos of groove on opposite sides of the bullet. Notice that one groove shows essentially no initial skid and doesn't seem as deep at the beginning of full diameter on the nose. The other side shows definite skid at the start of the full diameter nose.
I really cleaned the bore today, a fair bit of lead. The forcing cone shows a definite off center enter cut. The rifling ends closer to the breech of the barrel on one land than all the others.
I think the bullet is hitting the one land first and getting shoved to the other side a bit and this is what is causing the smearing on the rear of the bullet. The nose of the bullet is getting shoved off center while the rear is in the throat. Something has to give and the bullet bends a tiny bit in the middle. The barrel straightens the bullet back but by then the damage is done.

 

[Ian]

Excellent test, that gives you more to think about. So the forcing cone could be reamed off center, or could be worn off center by an out of alignment cylinder. Definitely fixable with a lathe, not so much with a Taylor reamer because that will tend to follow the cut that's already there. I'd investigate pulling that barrel off and giving it a really close study with your bore rod and button to make sure your impressions of the cone being non-concentric with the bore are correct. The cylinder timing might be less of a problem than you first thought.

The bullet also shows that there's plenty of room for engraving and the crimp and lube grooves don't need to be deepened for displacement....but your load is still way outta whack for the alloy and slugging that bullet up.

 

[358156 hp]

Try Dans 35-40 bhn test protocol. That man makes a really good case for super hard bullets. Have you recut the SRHs forcing cone with a reamer, or did you just polish it? I don't remember. My std RH has a 45 cal. sized forcing cone, so one of my projects is to determine how far I need to set the barrel back to clean it up. I'm guessing two turns, but it's just a guess. I think you'll have an easier time with the SRH if you decide to go that direction. Who knows? you may be able to just ream the forcing cone and be done with it.

 

[fiver]

I think I seen that off kilter land earlier.

if nothing else the amount of material moved by the lands in that picture should make an impression.
[not a pun]
it is something I think many people really over look.

I think it would be worth doing some measurements.
comparing this bullet to some of the recovered ones from earlier.
you can clearly see that the gas check is more in line with what your barrel measures here.
on the others I can see that it is smaller than the base of the bullet.
I thought at first maybe it was from impacting the berm, but now I don't know.
I'm not sure what's up there I mean the only way it could happen is when or after leaving the barrel.

 

[Brad]

Bob, I didn't go that hard but I did dive into my stash of woodpecker lips and mix up a pot of 4/4/92 alloy. If I let the mould cool a bit between pours the bullets are nice and shiny but if the mould was even a little too hot they are grey and frosty as hell. They didn't like to fall from the mould as the alloy didn't shrink as much on cooling. They will require a slightly smaller sizer to still freely enter the throats.

I did polish the forcing cone but did not use a reamer. I will try and get photos up soon. I would like to try marking gas checks and orienting them one loading in the case and the cylinder. I want to see if the deformation is from the small offset in the forcing cone.

Setting the barrel back would work but then I need an action wrench and barrel vise. What I have considered is a rechamber and rebarrel of on of my Blackhawks. Try to get throats better sized for the barrel. Just need to decide I want to take on the challenge. I may need to consult with your buddies Bob.

 

[Brad]

Just checked hardness. As cast, air cooled, after a few hours they run 22-24 BHn. Way harder than what I have been shooting. Heck, I was shooting 14 air cooled and 18 heat treated!

Will be interesting to see if this makes any difference. I sure hope it doesn't give more leading. I hate leading.