Missionary
Well-Known Member
Well when you fellers get tired of shooting your accurate 44 Flat tops I might be ready to buy one.
44 Special bullet choice
- Thread starter JustJim
- Start date
I've seen cylinder throats on the 45s go from .456+ (Old Model, first or second year production) to .449". My hunting load in that Old Model used a 456121 sized to .455". If you count the 44-40s, i've seen 44s from .424" (44-40 Vaquero) to .435" (44 mag Super); mags have gone from .425-.435".
I don't know how accurate this one is yet, I've not put it on paper. First shot was 6" low on the 25 yard gong. Second was 2' in front of the coyote who bolted at the first shot: third shot put paid to him. Numbers 4-24 hit the 6" 50 yard gong, and then it was too dark to see. I'm hoping to get it at least sort-of sighted in tomorrow, mould won't be here til later in the week and I need to get some brass emptied.
Missionary, problem seems to be that them that have 'em aren't letting them go.
I don't know how accurate this one is yet, I've not put it on paper. First shot was 6" low on the 25 yard gong. Second was 2' in front of the coyote who bolted at the first shot: third shot put paid to him. Numbers 4-24 hit the 6" 50 yard gong, and then it was too dark to see. I'm hoping to get it at least sort-of sighted in tomorrow, mould won't be here til later in the week and I need to get some brass emptied.
Missionary, problem seems to be that them that have 'em aren't letting them go.
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CWLONGSHOT
Well-Known Member
I have been lucky with myown Ruger 45 cyl throats too. Largest has been ly NM Bisley where one was .453. Theybwnere all opened and trued and I size to 454 with excellent results.
CW
CW
Rick H
Well-Known Member
My stainless 45 Colt Blackhawk came with undersized throats, I opened them to .4525" Mostly use Lee 255 RF and the RCBS 270 SWC (about 285 gr. with my alloy). It has a bit of Thread crush in the barrel but handles both of those bullets well without appreciable leading at 900-950 fps and that is plenty good enough for me.
I wanted to follow up on this if for no other reason than to have a baseline when the new mould arrives. Got it sighted in at 50 yards with the Skeeter load, 12 of them (traded from a buddy so I don't have specifics on the bullet) went into 3".
I've got enough Unique on hand to load a couple dozen rounds, but then I'm out. I'll use those loads (and bullets from the new mould) for comparison with other powders, probably starting with some AL7 that has been on my shelf for years. That should tide me over til spring.
I've got enough Unique on hand to load a couple dozen rounds, but then I'm out. I'll use those loads (and bullets from the new mould) for comparison with other powders, probably starting with some AL7 that has been on my shelf for years. That should tide me over til spring.
A little work on my behalf, but I ended up with a very nice bullet mould for the .44 Spec. or light .44 Mag. loads. Oh, did I mention CHEAP ? ? ?
https://www.artfulbullet.com/index.php?threads/lee-44-cal-200-gr-rf.5457/
https://www.artfulbullet.com/index.php?threads/lee-44-cal-200-gr-rf.5457/
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Glaciers
Alaska Land of the Midnight Sun
I'm with Ben on that little 200 grain LEE. I have a 2 cavity and a second one that Eric hollow pointed for me. Don't remember the load off the top of my head but 7grains of Unique I believe the ending load. Check your data, I'm not recommending that load as I'm going by memory. Would like to find a 180 grain bullet for further recoil reduction.
But that little bullet worked well in my Charter Arms and 3" Rossi. Minute of bad guy at seven to ten yards. Have not tried them in my 24-3 yet, but spring is coming. I will be trying other powders as well, had to load hotter than I wanted with unique to seal and not carbon up the brass.
I fixed the size problem with PC.
But that little bullet worked well in my Charter Arms and 3" Rossi. Minute of bad guy at seven to ten yards. Have not tried them in my 24-3 yet, but spring is coming. I will be trying other powders as well, had to load hotter than I wanted with unique to seal and not carbon up the brass.
I fixed the size problem with PC.
I think this 44 will be OK. I may end up firelapping it just to smooth out the bore, but I need some more trigger time before making that decision.
Alcan powders have been out of production since the early '80s, if I remember right. AL7 usually appears on the burn rate charts between Herco and HS-6. It is the closest powder to Unique I have on hand (I always thought Herco was a better powder for the 44 Special). AL7 is a flake powder, made in little square flakes designed to jam any powder measure ever made. In the early '80s, I used AL7 in my .41s, using a scoop to measure powder--I can go back to that if need be.
The new mould arrived, am going to try to get it broke in and some test bullets done up yet this weekend.
Alcan powders have been out of production since the early '80s, if I remember right. AL7 usually appears on the burn rate charts between Herco and HS-6. It is the closest powder to Unique I have on hand (I always thought Herco was a better powder for the 44 Special). AL7 is a flake powder, made in little square flakes designed to jam any powder measure ever made. In the early '80s, I used AL7 in my .41s, using a scoop to measure powder--I can go back to that if need be.
The new mould arrived, am going to try to get it broke in and some test bullets done up yet this weekend.
I have read references to the Alcan powders but have no knowledge of them. I did read from somewhere else exactly what you mentioned, that the powders were designed to not be able to go through any known powder measure/dump. Funny.
I've started gathering data for this project. I found an article by Edward M. Yard, the first ballistician who's work I read back when I was a kid and Carter was president.
Published in the March, 1963 edition of Guns magazine, Mr. Yard's article provided data for several then-relatively-new powders, including AL5, AL7, AL8, H240, and 295HP. He also provided some high-performance loads for Unique, Herco, and 2400, that are useful for comparative purposes. No pressure data, unfortunately. Several of his loads in the velocity range in which I'm interested verge on, or overlap, data from other sources. I'd be cautious about some of his hotter loads.
The magazine also had some stories from Skeeter Skelton and Russell Annabel that I'd not previously seen. Well-worth the time it took to find it!
Published in the March, 1963 edition of Guns magazine, Mr. Yard's article provided data for several then-relatively-new powders, including AL5, AL7, AL8, H240, and 295HP. He also provided some high-performance loads for Unique, Herco, and 2400, that are useful for comparative purposes. No pressure data, unfortunately. Several of his loads in the velocity range in which I'm interested verge on, or overlap, data from other sources. I'd be cautious about some of his hotter loads.
The magazine also had some stories from Skeeter Skelton and Russell Annabel that I'd not previously seen. Well-worth the time it took to find it!
https://gunsmagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/G0363.pdf You have to download the whole issue, but there's some neat stuff in there. The focus of the article was powders for use in heavy revolvers, and focuses on these. Mr. Yard thought AL5 and AL7 were best with medium-weight bullets at max velocities in the 44s, and heavies in the 357, and AL8 was best in the 44s with heavy bullets to max velocities. Of course, the meaning of "medium weight" and "heavy" bullets has changed in the past 60 years.
I've got some other mentions of AL8 data in my notes, if it will be helpful. Most of it centers on use in 44 special/mag, but some mention of 38 special/357 and 41 mag, maybe a couple others.
I've got some other mentions of AL8 data in my notes, if it will be helpful. Most of it centers on use in 44 special/mag, but some mention of 38 special/357 and 41 mag, maybe a couple others.
CZ93X62
Official forum enigma
Back on the 44 caliber bandwagon. I have 4 moulds in service for feeding the 44/40 WCF, 44 Special (if one lands here), and 44 Magnum. Those are--
1) SAECO #446, a 200 grain design that straddles two descriptors (round flatnose and SWC). I runs well in both of the leverguns, and that's what matters. I size to .429" for the Win 73 and Uberti Cattleman (44/40), and .431" for the rest of the 44 Magnum herd. No Specials around here for about 10 years or so. This bullet gets most of its use in 44/40, but mild loads in the Magnums get some work as well.
2) Lyman #429421, the classic Keith SWC of 240 grains. All revolvers, all the time. Mostly gets run about 900-1000 FPS atop 8.5 grains of Unique or 9.0 grains of Herco to duplicate "Skeeter's Load in the 44 Magnums.
3) Lyman #429244, the Thompson SWC/GC of about 240 grains in 92/6/2. It is a SWC with short front drive band that will feed in my Win 92 very well, but gets most use in heavy 44 Mag revolver loads.
4) Accurate #43-250C, a 250 grain round FN w/gas check heel, meant for heavy loads in the Win 92. It is SUPERBLY ACCURATE in that rifle, pet load is 20.0 grains of 2400 for about 1700 FPS and with open irons these group into 2" @ 100 yards.
1) SAECO #446, a 200 grain design that straddles two descriptors (round flatnose and SWC). I runs well in both of the leverguns, and that's what matters. I size to .429" for the Win 73 and Uberti Cattleman (44/40), and .431" for the rest of the 44 Magnum herd. No Specials around here for about 10 years or so. This bullet gets most of its use in 44/40, but mild loads in the Magnums get some work as well.
2) Lyman #429421, the classic Keith SWC of 240 grains. All revolvers, all the time. Mostly gets run about 900-1000 FPS atop 8.5 grains of Unique or 9.0 grains of Herco to duplicate "Skeeter's Load in the 44 Magnums.
3) Lyman #429244, the Thompson SWC/GC of about 240 grains in 92/6/2. It is a SWC with short front drive band that will feed in my Win 92 very well, but gets most use in heavy 44 Mag revolver loads.
4) Accurate #43-250C, a 250 grain round FN w/gas check heel, meant for heavy loads in the Win 92. It is SUPERBLY ACCURATE in that rifle, pet load is 20.0 grains of 2400 for about 1700 FPS and with open irons these group into 2" @ 100 yards.
I recently scored a pound of Herco, so I'll be using a similar load (9.0 gr with NOE's version of the Keith bullet), rather than the Unique load, as my standard for comparison. Also have some brass coming!
A friend is about as little of a fan of his 44 Special as I am of my 32-20, so I'm heading into town this afternoon to see if we can work something out.
A friend is about as little of a fan of his 44 Special as I am of my 32-20, so I'm heading into town this afternoon to see if we can work something out.