45-70 stuff again

I had a 22 inch 45-70 which I developed a load for using Lyman’s 457193 bullet 2x powder coated sized to .460 with maxed out trapdoor data imr 4198 shot like a dream.

I since have gotten into the 18.5 inch world of the marlins. Been trying to hit rod them w 350 gr bullets from noe and they shoot pretty good but I treated it like a whole different animal as w these I’m pushing 1800 fps not 1500 fps and chose to accept 3 inch groups open sights at 80 yards instead of the 2 inch groups open sights at 80 yards I normally got w the 405 due to the 350 shooting pretty level and the 405 shooting like a modified rainbow

Now I got that new 18.5 inch gun back from marlin warranty and ran my 350s through it and it simply was doing great giving me those same acceptable groups I come to know then I began to wonder “how will it handle those 405s”

I ran two groups at 50 yards and let me tell you, I went on eBay and rebought that mold as I sold it awhile back so I could focus on shooting lighter bullets.


Like I said I’m ok w running my 350s real hard and accepting 2 inch at 50 or 3 inch at 80 but these 405s I always drop the group size by a inch. When you subtract that inch it makes you wonder if I’m shooting a bedded rifle or a lever gun. I’m excited to begin making these bullets again


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What is your powder, Roger? My Marlin 1895 likes 2400 for milder loads and 3031 for torturing my shoulder. Been wanting to try RL 7 which is a fine powder, as well as 748. Pistolero on this board recommended the 748 as giving accuracy but at reduced chamber pressure.


Staff member
748 or 335 will do for full throttle loads. I have used some healthy charges of 322, Varget, 4895, and Benchmark too.

I prefer a 405 at 1400 fps as my shoulder lasts longer.


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Been shooting 24 gr of 2400 for a long time after going up as
far as my shoulder and I wished to go, and that was approaching
458 starting loads. Don't think there is anything in the lower 48
that will walk away from that load properly placed with just about
all bullet weights from 300 to 420 gr. I shot a boar in Texas with
that load, at about 50 yds, and when the scope settled had
4 feet in the air. My most accurate bullet in my #1 has always
been 457124, closely followed by the old Gould HP. IF I were of
a notion to go up in vol, I would probably go with Varget. Boar
went close to 300 lb.

Right on. I heard mixed things w the 457124 but some say it works real good in those no 1’s. I found a 4 cavity 457124 once apon a time......I’m dumb for not picking that up


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Might be interesting to try reduced charges of 3031for <1600 fps or so. Lyman #46 lists start load for 457193 of 38.5 grains 3031. I would expect quite a lot of unburned powder but it would be easy on the cast bullet. Anybody successfully try slower powders for reduced velocity loads?


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I used to use surplus 4831, fill the case to where the base of the bullet would be when it was seated (about 50 grains IIRC). They were quite accurate but like shooting black powder, hard on the shoulder and very loud. Tried it with surplus ball powder 20 years ago, and that was a disaster! Days of bore scrubbing trying to get the black sludge out of the barrel.


Well-Known Member
Waco, any idea of MV? The slower powders in this big case leave a lot of unburned powder but I have found that I can use a magnum primer and clean the burn up without affecting accuracy. The mag primers used only in reduced loads of 3031.


Well-Known Member
57 gr of W748 is trapdoor pressure according to Brian Pearce at Rifle and Handloader,
delivers 1750 in my SS GG and shoots about 1.5-2" groups at 100. With Rem 405 JSPs took
a blue wildebeest and a zebra with one shot each. Does the same with RCBS cast 405 GCs.