6,5x55
- Thread starter Spindrift
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Spindrift
Well-Known Member
Making progress with the NOE 268-140. It seems to be a node around 22 grs N120. This is a couple of grains more than the NOE 266-140 («creedmoor»), cast from the same alloy. Wether this is due to bullet design, or the fact I use a different lube now, is unclear for now. Will have to re-test the 266-140 with my new lube, to see if it tolerates higher pressure/speed.
Spindrift
Well-Known Member
The lube looks very promising. I just mixed equal parts 666+1, simple lube and Glen’s black. But I will have to test it some more before making any bold claims 
First impression, after a couple of hundred shots, is a slight improvement of accuracy, and increased tolerance to pressure/speed compared to the straight 666+1 I have mostly used this winter.
First impression, after a couple of hundred shots, is a slight improvement of accuracy, and increased tolerance to pressure/speed compared to the straight 666+1 I have mostly used this winter.
fiver
Well-Known Member
too much slippery in a lube can kill the accuracy potential.
I done a test in my 9mm's where I started out with lube that was like,, well?,, like slime almost, and kept buffering it with more wax and more wax until the groups settled down to the point adding more didn't help.
it actually got to a point of more wax just making the lube have no real lubrication to it and it started affecting groups negatively.
maybe I could have tuned the load some more?
but I couldn't see a lot of sense in working up to a full jacketed load when all I wanted was holes in the paper at 15-20 yards and brass that pretty much stayed in one small area.
I done a test in my 9mm's where I started out with lube that was like,, well?,, like slime almost, and kept buffering it with more wax and more wax until the groups settled down to the point adding more didn't help.
it actually got to a point of more wax just making the lube have no real lubrication to it and it started affecting groups negatively.
maybe I could have tuned the load some more?
but I couldn't see a lot of sense in working up to a full jacketed load when all I wanted was holes in the paper at 15-20 yards and brass that pretty much stayed in one small area.
Ian
Notorious member
That Babybel wax is good stuff, two waxes in one actually. The outer, red wax is a tough, stretchy, high-melt microwax and the inner part is food-grade paraffin/micro blend. Contrary to popular belief, the product sold in the US currently does not have any carnauba wax in the rind. If all you had for bullet lube was Babybel rinds and a dab of Vaseline or cheap, buttery (not stringy like melted cheese) lithium grease, you'd have a pretty good lube right there.
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Spindrift
Well-Known Member
I have started load development with powder coated Arsenal Moulds 266- 92 (sages GC), in my S&L 6,5x55. Using Viht n-110, for starters. Shot some groups with 18- 20 grs. Mostly with bullet seating at light jam fit, and sizing .266 (as this has worked best with lubed bullets). But I also shot a few groups with 0,04in jump, and a light factory crimp- and one group with .265 bullets.
I had no sensational groups today, but made some interesting observations (not actually breaking news, but interesting to me all the same).
The single layer of epoxy paint not only changes the pressure/speed tolerance, but also jump tolerance/preference and sizing tolerance/preference. I have to approach this, not only as a completely new bullet, but also as if I had a new rifle.
The target below is with 20grs N110, 0,04in bullet jump, going at 2300 fps from a 22in barrel, with 1:8 1/4in ROT. It is just sub- 2MOA; nothing sensational. But it is nice and round, my guess is the bullet wants a little more juice.
I had no sensational groups today, but made some interesting observations (not actually breaking news, but interesting to me all the same).
The single layer of epoxy paint not only changes the pressure/speed tolerance, but also jump tolerance/preference and sizing tolerance/preference. I have to approach this, not only as a completely new bullet, but also as if I had a new rifle.
The target below is with 20grs N110, 0,04in bullet jump, going at 2300 fps from a 22in barrel, with 1:8 1/4in ROT. It is just sub- 2MOA; nothing sensational. But it is nice and round, my guess is the bullet wants a little more juice.
Ian
Notorious member
Usually before for a couple of reasons. Check shanks usually can't tolerate the extra thickness and paint irregularities on the base complicare firm check seating. Most of my bullet moulds throw a bullet too large for PC so I like to pre-size before coating and again after, and that gives a good opportunity to seat the checks and then crimp them with a nose-first sizer. The only potential issue doing this is the checks get annealed, but for better or worse I couldn't say.
sub 2" from a 6.5 at 2300 fps....... not possible I have heard.
Must be true if ya read it on the internet.
Spindrift
Well-Known Member
These days, I’m trying to wrap my head around the «dynamic fit»- concept.
The NOE 266-140 (se below) is the 6,5- bullet I have shot the most. I quickly got 1,5-2 MOA 5- shot groups, but haven’t really progressed much from there. So, I tried to analyze some of its characteristics:
1) Very long and slender; «flying pencil»
2) Very long, conical nose with good self-aligning properties
3) Long bearing surface, with few relief grooves
4) Very hard alloy, Lee says BHN27
—> Probably it would benefit from a «flying start» at the lands to facilitate engraving, without base distortion.
I shot a couple of groups today, were I gave it about 0.04in jump. This COL was chosen, cause it hid the lube groove in the neck, solving another problem. I only shot a couple of groups, as other projects were already planned. But it looks promising, I’ll follow this lead further with this bullet.
Rem 700, 6,5x55, 5@100 from prone, Norma brass, WLRP, Hornady GC, home-made lube
The NOE 266-140 (se below) is the 6,5- bullet I have shot the most. I quickly got 1,5-2 MOA 5- shot groups, but haven’t really progressed much from there. So, I tried to analyze some of its characteristics:
1) Very long and slender; «flying pencil»
2) Very long, conical nose with good self-aligning properties
3) Long bearing surface, with few relief grooves
4) Very hard alloy, Lee says BHN27
—> Probably it would benefit from a «flying start» at the lands to facilitate engraving, without base distortion.
I shot a couple of groups today, were I gave it about 0.04in jump. This COL was chosen, cause it hid the lube groove in the neck, solving another problem. I only shot a couple of groups, as other projects were already planned. But it looks promising, I’ll follow this lead further with this bullet.
Rem 700, 6,5x55, 5@100 from prone, Norma brass, WLRP, Hornady GC, home-made lube
Spindrift
Well-Known Member
The Arsenal 266-92 seems to be a particularily good fit for my Rem 700, 6,5x55. In my other two 6,5’s, I get good accuracy at 15grs N110- but som soot on the necks. At 16 grs, the groups open up.
In the Rem 700, I got to 17grs N110 today, with good accuracy (1975fps). My brother shot this group (1,25MOA), he is an unexperienced-but-talented rifle shooter. Haven’t reached the wall, yet. Also tried N120, it worked fine. At 19grs (1885fps) I got a 5 shot 1MOA- group.
This little Arsenal bullet is fantastic. Easy on my alloy stash, and accurate in all my rifles. Not bad, for visually sorted 5-cav bullets.
In the Rem 700, I got to 17grs N110 today, with good accuracy (1975fps). My brother shot this group (1,25MOA), he is an unexperienced-but-talented rifle shooter. Haven’t reached the wall, yet. Also tried N120, it worked fine. At 19grs (1885fps) I got a 5 shot 1MOA- group.
This little Arsenal bullet is fantastic. Easy on my alloy stash, and accurate in all my rifles. Not bad, for visually sorted 5-cav bullets.
fiver
Well-Known Member
let me break down the dynamic fit thing some.
a static fit is when you snuggle everything up into the throat but haven't yet fired the round.
you have done everything you can as a handloader to make sure of alignment.
dynamic fit is what happens over the next 1/2-1" of travel.
you push on the base.
you get the bullet moving forward.
the shape of the bullet is changing.
either from the rearward forces or from the mechanical forces of it entering the tube.
your also experiencing the one point besides the muzzle where part of the bullet is supported and part isn't, the difference is 50-K of pressure versus 5-K or 200 psi depending on the gas volume [time under pressure]
[there is more, but this is enough for you to sort out]
there is another point down the barrel I call the relax point.
this is when the bullet it self is able to settle down and just glide down the bore with less gas pressure on it than it takes to deform the base into a putty like plug.
you'll quite often see some antimony wash just behind it [towards the muzzle] happening, or some lube streaking at the point where it occurs.
a static fit is when you snuggle everything up into the throat but haven't yet fired the round.
you have done everything you can as a handloader to make sure of alignment.
dynamic fit is what happens over the next 1/2-1" of travel.
you push on the base.
you get the bullet moving forward.
the shape of the bullet is changing.
either from the rearward forces or from the mechanical forces of it entering the tube.
your also experiencing the one point besides the muzzle where part of the bullet is supported and part isn't, the difference is 50-K of pressure versus 5-K or 200 psi depending on the gas volume [time under pressure]
[there is more, but this is enough for you to sort out]
there is another point down the barrel I call the relax point.
this is when the bullet it self is able to settle down and just glide down the bore with less gas pressure on it than it takes to deform the base into a putty like plug.
you'll quite often see some antimony wash just behind it [towards the muzzle] happening, or some lube streaking at the point where it occurs.
Ian
Notorious member
Reading back through this thread, the thought formed solidly that it is time to really delve into the dynamic fit discussion and try to explain some things. Then I read the post above which pretty much does. Thing is, I think a lot of people still struggle with what I call "playing a movie" of a cast bullet making the case to bore transition in their mind and visualizing all the forces, counter forces, metal flow, gas flow, etc. I wish there was a way to scale the forces down (pressure, neck tension, bullet strength) so that a polycarbonate barrel could be bored, chambered, polished and filmed in action at 100,000 frames per second so we could SEE what was actually occurring and why some bullets do better than others. All we have are the clues left behind on our cases, on trapped bullets, or in the rifles themselves. After studying this stuff long enough and simply observing cause and effect relationships we do get close to an understanding, but it is difficult to communicate it without visual aid.