7mm HP pic

Intheshop

Well-Known Member
Dinking around in the loading room. This is a Lee 285-130R that is in development for tooling.Drilled,then a torx #? or other,is pressed in.Have a cpl more pcs to get,making the process really streamlined... Easy Peasy.

At 2500fps should initiate complete vaporization. Hoping for no exit on Ghogs.Might even shoot a water filled milk jug one of these days?20180821_094146_resized.jpg
 

fiver

Well-Known Member
it should for sure open.
the problem I had with the 7mm's was they would penetrate like nobody's business.
16-18" pine logs at 100yds....?
no problem, get your lead back out of the dirt.
 

Intheshop

Well-Known Member
Yeeeup on the TG Ian.

Man,I went Ghog'n yesterday..... dodging rain,which was fun as all get out.Was considering losing the 4-12 scope and jacked up load for the 4X and "plinker" load.

Heck,even considered taking the extra stuff and working on "field scope swap"?

Nope,the hopped up 285-130R Varget load is like a drug...... just can't break the habit once you see the terminal effects.Need to work on the paralax on 12X..... I like to set them for a touch over 75yds for cast.This pce of doodoo scope is still set @150 which means cranking it's power down to 6.

Watched a Ghog for almost 30 minutes @75 yesterday.He was facing the other way.No hurry right? So I finally got to get up cause of O.L.D. and figured.... "ok boy,ready to meet your maker"...

Flicked the safety to "send it" and the bugger takes off for his hole,haha.And no,he didn't hear the,very muffled safety.Just waited too long.
 
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fiver

Well-Known Member
somehow they know when something bad is gonna happen to them.
I had one chuck that would scoot for his hole at the sight of my truck.
he had an advantage point from his feeding field where I couldn't see him but he could see the road I come down..
I would see him running as I come around to where I could see him.
I finally got him with the 25-06 at about 325 yards by waiting him out after cruising by in the truck then doubling back on foot.
 

Eutectic

Active Member
I've shot a lot of hollow pointed cast bullets at the speed you mention. To put it simply.... impact on varmints is a sight to behold!o_O

Explosiveness is more than jacketed.... Sooner expansion better put. I'm not sure you'll get your combination to stop in a GHog... But I'll say this.... the exit side of said critter will make your mouth fall open!

I have taken empty Coke cans and filled them with water. I'll set them in a row with a 2" gap between cans. This test is a good indicator where the most "hydraulic" action is taking place. I've had .22's and .25's stop in the second can with a complete reverse explosion on the entry side of the can!

If you stop with a second can entry you might stop in a groundhog??? I'm predicting the whole off side will be an exit hole however!

The Torx idea is 'unique' and a good idea! Let us know what the GHog says!

Pete
 

Eutectic

Active Member
.25-20 pop can.jpg
Here's the base of the first can of a test..... The can was torn into quite a few pieces! I sent this to show what to look for..... Note the reinforcement rings are almost ironed out. Note the bottom.... It was on a log and the hydraulics show wood grain and cracks in the log. This can saw many psi's at impact...
 
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Intheshop

Well-Known Member
Sean Connery voice over......

"I've heard of this reverse explosion on the entry side of the can".

That right there is a goal Eutectic!
 

Uncle Grinch

Active Member
Would you mind showing us (me) how you made this Torx grenade? I think I may want to try this on my 308 and 8mm plinker rifles.
 

Intheshop

Well-Known Member
Grinch,a lot of this depends on what a person has to work with,equipment wise. Don't think it can be done without a drill press or lathe.

A lathe that accepts collets is too easy.Just get one that fits the diameter of your bullet and use a threaded "stop" coming in from the backside.Use a small center drill for the hole..... picking it's diameter based on the size of the Torx bit.After drilling replace with the bit and swage to some sort of repeatable depth.

Realizing,you may have to play around with tooling and procedures to minimize error.Which is where most folks are gonna drop the ball.You have to be able to understand stacked tolerance from the standpoint of how you can mitigate it.Easier said than done...... think precision handloading.There's many ways to get from here to there. Exclaiming "my way or the highway" is NOT gonna get you very far. You have to be willing to try different methods,choosing the technique that works best in your application.

I don't have a lathe in the loading room,BUT.... got drill press.Several lathes in the shop however. Basically in a DP( drill press) it amounts to an extremely close fitting "drill guide".Which are used in std fixture design in manufacturing. It's a hardened steel "bushing" that has a hole in it the size of the drill.The fixture can then be made out of practically anything harder than say a pce of pine. In this case,since the product is a bullet.... you have to shape the drill guide to reduce error to zero.....

A quick way would be take a well fitted top punch and use that as the basis for a drill guide.I make "D" reamers to create upper swage dies for nose bumping.So just take that and make the drill guide. What we're trying to achieve error wise is so a blind person can do this( no offence),and not miss a beat. Then it's just a matter of locating the bullet in a "lower" fixture. I'm looking to order another 5C collet holder for the loading room,keeping this tooling away from the shop. Because,"I" like collets..... someone else may approach it differently. Further,I have other plans in the loading process for these collets so it becomes an investment in future work/projects. At some point would like to drop a bullet nose down in a 5C and mill the base,along with some other,not so crazy ideas.

I'll update with pics as the tooling gets streamlined.
 
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Uncle Grinch

Active Member
Thanks for the preliminary info. I have a 10 inch DAYTON drill press, fractional, number and letter bits along with 5 sizes of center drill bits. Curious about the Torx bit, mine are hex drive. I assume you would have to remove that and portion of the bit and measure the major diameter. Or do you use the hex portion to connect to a ball/handle like a traditional hollow point mould.

Pictures would be nice....

Thanks again,
Mike
 

fiver

Well-Known Member
think more like a nose size die.
press the nose in place and hold it then punch the hollow.
I was HP'n some loaded 45 colts a while back by holding them in place in the crimp seater die with the stem removed and using a small drill press mounted over the loading press to make the hole.

I was actually using a flash hole uniforming/de-burring tool to cut the HP.
I sanded it down to fit through a priming punch bushing to help keep everything straight.
 

Intheshop

Well-Known Member
Grinch,on the one in the OP,..... I just chucked the hex drive Torx in the DP chuck..... since the bullet was already centered.Pretty easy.

That 130 Lee had already been nose bumped,which created a flat point.If you look at the OP pic,you can see a faint shadow down on the side of the "bump".

Following is just rambling(not in response to Grinch)

I swear,look up spherical trigonometry. When handloaders start shape manipulation,and subsequent jam in an existing throat..... that,I believe is the science to explain these relationships. I got thrown,and my head held under the water,"in the deep end" doing millwork. Imagine cutting a ball into exactly one quarter...... now make the diameter 16 feet.And the whole thing has to be coffered with raised panels..... this goes over the pulpit in a stooopid $$$ church.20 feet up in the air.Who do you call for directions?

Look at shell coved headers over/inside repro 18th century corner cabinets.Same principles. Yes,we can get all puffed up talking smack about which engineering school or what computer model we're gonna use for these pcs. but,after all the meetings and babbling about,some poor schmuck is gonna have to fabricate this stuff.I like doing it.
 

Ian

Well-Known Member
Pete had a nice tutorial somewhere in the middle of a thread about making bullet-holding collets for his micro-lathe for HP'ing.
 

KeithB

Resident Half Fast Machinist
Yes,we can get all puffed up talking smack about which engineering school or what computer model we're gonna use for these pcs. but,after all the meetings and babbling about,some poor schmuck is gonna have to fabricate this stuff.
One thing I tried to tell my newly minted PhD faculty colleagues. Some listened, some didn't. That's OK, those who can do real things that not many other people can do generally come out OK.
 

Eutectic

Active Member
I brought this thread back up as I tried a different Coke can test that was quite interesting!

I may have mentioned I bought a NOE mold on sale for my .25-20's. It's a little 63 grain Gascheck that has turned out to shoot way better than I thought it would. I bought it mainly for my Model 92 and Remington model 25 but now am using it in my very accurate Model 23 Savage. I am hollow pointing them also with a #47 drill (.079") 3/8"deep. Its weight is now 58.5grs with gascheck. Using some WW680 I am getting 2500fps from my Savage bolt gun at 1/2 moa. So today I tried it on a full can of cherry 7up. (old stock) Yep only one can....... Several of us lube cooks check lube jettison close up. So I put an old pine 1x4 behind the full can 5" back....

The can was really hit! Bottom really flattened as the can picture above. Part of the can wall on the exit side didn't tear off as normal but was pressed (hard) into the log grain it sat on. This was different so I picked up the board. I had a jettison of lead and aluminum can material stuck into the board like a shotgun pattern! NOTHING exited the 3/4" thick piece of soft pine! A crow wacked with one of these could be very interesting... I better see.

Pete

IMG_0611.JPG
 
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Intheshop

Well-Known Member
Good write up Eutectic!

Having trouble here finding the right chuck key for the little DP. Got one of those 4 way keys today from epay.... no joy. Turned around and ordered another of a different size... oh well. The tooling is pretty easy to make otherwise.

On a slight tangent; a year or so before messing with the torx HP, I was toying with the notion of extreme accuracy,hopefully afforded by a HP.... as compared to flat points general lack of BC. Well,that was the notion.... what didn't pan out was the untold hours of research that would always end in a deadend. Mostly cause of JB process engineering. Trying to find data comparing flat points to HP match bullets isn't on the menu. Least not what I was looking for?

Won't say it was a wasted effort cause there's always things to learn,with some nuggets coming from directions you wouldn't have thought of otherwise. My gut still says I can create a more accurate CB,in certain match circumstances,by HP'ing after the fact.
 

fiver

Well-Known Member
you definitely can.
it'll cost you some shop time though.

build a swage die with a hollow point stem, weight sort, then check- size-lube.
run them through the swage die with a gentle bump on the cam over of the press, then heat treat to whatever bhn you want and re-apply the lube.
you'll have square bases, sharp base corners, and a centered hole in the nose.
if you make the swage die properly, the nose shape and diameter will also match your throat shape.
 
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Eutectic

Active Member
Those point forming encapsulated dies I described making some time back would swage like you want. Unless you were looking to move the displaced alloy from swaging the HP forward into a different bullet shape I would drill HP first and a Torx-nosed nose punch would go quick to finish!

Pete