A New Primer Manufacturer in the Planning

Wiresguy

Active Member
My LGS had CCI BR2 primers yesterday, $120 per 1000. Ouch!

First time I've seen primers there in a couple of months. Powder supply was about 40% of what he normally stocks.
 

Jeff H

NW Ohio
Good news!

Not that they're doing this altruistically, with plans to bring the oppressed and downtrodden masses $30/k primers again, but some actual COMPETITION would make for a healthier market, and ostensibly bring primer prices closer to something somewhat less shocking and hurtful.
 

JonB

Halcyon member
Wiresguy,
I haven't been to Little Crow since December. Have the new owners changed anything? other than primer pricing :eek:
 

Bret4207

At the casting bench in the sky. RIP Bret.
Going to take a while for them to get into the supply stream, but the more the merrier!
 

Wiresguy

Active Member
Jon, I was in there on Tuesday to get a FFL copy sent off and visited with Jim for awhile. Then again yesterday to pick up my gun. Nobody said anything about new owners.

I think I had about a 2 month stretch last fall when I never went in, so the change of command might have been announced in that time frame. I do know that the last few times I have been in Ethan was not there, and he was pretty much Jim's right hand. I just figured he was off on the times I was there. If there are new owners I am sure the "personality" of the place will be different.
 

popper

Well-Known Member
google earth from 85 shows the expansion industries location pretty much a run down set of 4-5 buildings. Lots of work to do. They also have a metal stamping operation father north.
 

fiver

Well-Known Member
they are reworking an old set of buildings.

i've heard everything from a superfund sight, to an old school.
either way they won't be rolling anything out the door for another year and a half, and i'm going with primers being the last thing on the list leaving the facility.
 

Brad

Benevolent Overlord and site owner
Staff member
Just because they make primers it doesn’t mean they will sell them at retail. They may just supply their own ammunition lines or other ammo manufacturers.

Time will tell. I’m sure not sad to see another name in the name.
 

RicinYakima

High Steppes of Eastern Washington
Just because they make primers it doesn’t mean they will sell them at retail. They may just supply their own ammunition lines or other ammo manufacturers.

Time will tell. I’m sure not sad to see another name in the name.
Just because they are "going to make" ammunition, doesn't mean they are going to make primers!!!
 

Brad

Benevolent Overlord and site owner
Staff member
They specifically mention primers in that story but don’t mention where they will go.
 

RicinYakima

High Steppes of Eastern Washington
Making primers is the most dangerous, hardest and most complicated piece that goes into making ammunition. I grew up about 6 miles from the plant that made primers for 50BMG from WW2 to the 1970's. Place blew up at least four times, burned down twice and killed I don't know how many people.
 

RBHarter

West Central AR
Foot notes in ordinance production .
The construction materials have changed some since 1840 but the structures and designs are static .

Grounds are everything , they are the first , last , and single most important part of the systems . Second is remote operation and isolated chambers with directive blow out walls .

The idea is to minimize damage , directing the blast wave away from the plant , people and other materiel . As long as everyone follows the SOP and there aren't any major aborations everything is all good .

I grew up in a small town that had about 6-7 gas stations and 3 tire shops that were owned buy I think 4 families . They all had coffee and breakfast together on Monday , and Thursday , Wednesday was out for the livestock auction .
A guy bought and Arco AM/PM franchise and built a new station that included about 8' of fill to park the tanks and raise the lot up to street grade . Like all new stations they were 20-30¢ under everyone in town and about a nickle under the bulk plant commercial 10,000 gallon price for over a month . So the godfather's all got together and had a little talk something to the effect of " you've made your point , secured a base , now come on in line ." To which they agreed and over the next couple of weeks their price moved up about dime , which was a big deal in 1983 . Another month goes by and the godfather's meet again and have another talk ...." Y'all are killing us get on board or access , new stop lights , new curb and sidewalk work could become troublesome and excessively drawn out due to labor and cost concerns and stuff" . Their answer was " we're held to the franchise contract that allows a 14% market adjustment from the standard price set and 5% over cost set . We are at the top of that limit now . There's nothing else we can do ."
The good old boys were stuck and had to back down to stay in the game . They did eventually find ways to force the Arco costs up and nickle and dime them but they had a sound attitude adjustment at the same time . I think there's only 3 families and 2 isolated stations now in town there now . The kids didn't want the stations or the tire store so when Dad was done only 1 of their 3 stations was sold and the tire shop just closed up . It was the same story with the Shell and 76 stations . Arco is long gone but Sinclair owns it now . I don't know what the Rez gas deal is but I flash my NA card for 33¢ off diesel and 35¢ on gas so as long as they're within a dime of the rest I don't care much .

AA&E is a similarly small world and I'd bet the big boys do coffee from time to time . If the upstart doesn't want to play ball and can't pull enough long game market they will get frozen out or bought up one share at a time until it's split up 30/30/31/9 and a take over will happen with a super conglomocorp puppet . Of course if they stay LLC Corp , greed is an ample tool to take care of that , and if that fails there's always road work , OSHA , and EPA complaints .

I hope they make it . I hope they hold on . I hope that they produce a product that will minimize our load reworks .
 

Petrol & Powder

Well-Known Member
The reason that company (Expansion Industries} is investing over 100 million dollars to open up a plant is they believe there's enough long-term potential demand for the product to eventually make a profit. Time will tell if they are right, but one thing is certain; they are not spending that money in the hopes of losing that investment.
 

Bret4207

At the casting bench in the sky. RIP Bret.
I know about a dozen shooters on this board who are within a morning's drive of the plant. It would be nice if they had a retail outlet. It would also be nice if a powder plant could be put up in, say, Pecos.
As long as we're wishing, I'd like a plant in my backyard too!
 

Missionary

Well-Known Member
50 years ago my uncle and a friend bought an empty run down gas station Highway 33N of St. Joseph and started building thier own "Booney Bike" but called the Bronco. They had already finished their proto-types and called the outfit Heald Inc. It was a not cop of the Heath Kit offering but vastly improved.
They both had been part of the original design team but Heath did not want to improve the old design.
So off they went and called their line Bronco. My other uncle bought #3 and that was the first powered 2 wheeler I rode at the grand age of 12. That was pre-production.
Despite all the "basura" Heath tried to throw at them they perservered and the rest became a successful history.

So how hard would it to be to start a home brewed primer shop and only sell to "owner members"? Call it a buyers club ?
 
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Petrol & Powder

Well-Known Member
When you're playing with money, particularly investor's money, you don't make decisions based on emotion.

I suspect if they are able to get this venture off the ground, they will sell primers to wherever the market demands.

The biggest danger is that they are basing their plan on a certain price. If the market drops below their minimum price point, they will not be able to succeed.
I wish them well.
 

JonB

Halcyon member
Jon, I was in there on Tuesday to get a FFL copy sent off and visited with Jim for awhile. Then again yesterday to pick up my gun. Nobody said anything about new owners.

I think I had about a 2 month stretch last fall when I never went in, so the change of command might have been announced in that time frame. I do know that the last few times I have been in Ethan was not there, and he was pretty much Jim's right hand. I just figured he was off on the times I was there. If there are new owners I am sure the "personality" of the place will be different.
I don't think there ever was an "official announcement."
My Buddy Kermit told me in Oct? or Nov? He is the nosiest guy I ever met.
I did ask Jim about it, during a December visit to the store, he confirmed it. Another guy there sitting in a chair (maybe the new owner to be?) said to not expect any changes. Jim also said, Jan 3rd, after inventory, is the switchover date.

I honestly didn't think Jim would be there much after that day...But if he was there Tuesday, I guess he is hanging around to helpout?
 

BudHyett

Active Member
Praise to these people for even trying to build this plant. During the last powder and primer shortage, I was contacted by an investment group about setting up a plant to manufacture powder and possibly primers. One of the members knew I hold a degree in Chemistry, had experience as a process/production engineer, and reloaded for shooting competition. The discussion soon went to primer production as the primers are the lodgepole item for ammunition.

There are major stepping stones (delays and blockages) along the way:
  • Getting a firm to design the plant is not easy, many firms shy away due to fear of future litigation if anyone is injured in a dangerous setting.
  • Federal government environmental and OSHA regulations for a new plant are hideous, the state adds their regulations to the batch.
  • Then getting funding for a plant that may blow up is difficult, bankers want their safety people to review all plans.
  • Hiring production workers with the ability to follow established procedures is almost impossible as your Human Resources people suddenly become experts because they once read a Reader's HR rules.
Our job with regard to this group's working is to make them understand the small, but steady market for the reloader. Especially the competition shooter who is not sponsored by an ammunition company. We annually expend 10,000 rounds for practice and matches, buy in case lots, and are there again the next year with the same demand. Not a sizable market, but a steady market. We also need for them to understand the more uniform the primer, the better reloader market advantage they will have.
Maybe these guys will ramp up and help relieve some of the shortages: