A trip back in time.
- Thread starter Ben
- Start date
3
358156hp
Guest
People don't all learn the same way of course. It's important for people to keep asking questions until they understand the material. Unfortunately, too many people are afraid of others thinking of them thinking them "dumb", or "stupid", and refuse to pursue the subject to the conclusion they require. I'll bet Brads job is especially bad for this. I can't help but think of the confusion from the first time I had to take steroids, and their steadily decreasing doses. Even written out didn't help at first.
That is called a taper by the way. They are a pain to fit on a label in an inteligible form.
Biggest problem at times is figuring out not what is asked but what the person wants to know. Often the question isn't worded in a way to garner the actual knowledge they seek. Learned that from a librarian brother.
Biggest problem at times is figuring out not what is asked but what the person wants to know. Often the question isn't worded in a way to garner the actual knowledge they seek. Learned that from a librarian brother.
3
358156hp
Guest
Most of my adult life seems to have been spent training other people to do their jobs (sigh). It took me a long time to learn that most of these people don't understand what you tell them the first time. I would have to make sure I understood the material up one side and down the other so that I could explain it many different ways until they finally absorbed the material. It was quite useful to realize that all this gave me the ability to ask questions in such a way to make sure the material was understood. And quite often, I'd have to do the same thing with the same person again the next day. So, if you see me talking in circles, as I sometime do, you know where it comes from.
KHornet
Well-Known Member
On the original subject, I started loading on a 310 tool in 222, for a 340 Sav. Killed a lot of chucks with is in Western New York, and a decent black tail buck with it iand 310 loads in Washington state (was legal at the time, don't know if it still is). Have complete sets for 30-06 and 38S/357, and a number of other misc dies for 310. Every once in awhile I will load 20 or so 06, and 50 or so 38S, (probably every couple of years of so). With the exception of charging cases and seating blts, I can run thru the process while watching TV, which is the way I do all my priming with a Lee hand primer. Never loaded rifle or pistol ctgs with a Lee hammer loader, but instructed a couple of guys who had them in 223 and 243. Did however, for a number of years load 20 g. Shotgun with a Lee hammer loader (still have it). Was adequate for dove, and pheasant seasons at the time, and all I shot was side by side doubles.
For the newbee who starts out with a progressive loader, I feel he/she is missing out on the history and evolution of reloading.
For the newbee who starts out with a progressive loader, I feel he/she is missing out on the history and evolution of reloading.
I have hired people who had a 3.8 GPA on a 4.0 system.
They couldn't teach their dog to roll over.
Ben
Our educational system has now turned into one of
" If you can memorize things ", you can obtain any
kind of college degree you want. At the end of your
4 years, you'll be an expert at memorization, but you
may also be dumb as a rock.
Few programs make a person really think and problem
solve anymore.
Here is an example......We send Johnny home in the
5th grade to study and memorize the cotton export weights
for a particular year in Honduras. The next day, Johnny has either memorized it or he hasn't .
We'll base his grade on how well he memorizes things.
When in Johnny's future will he ever need to know the exact amount of cotton exported from Honduras in 1964 . He will definitely need problem solving skills, but the time wasted on this won't help him in any form or fashion ?
Our current school systems waste so much valuable time with our young people.
" If you can memorize things ", you can obtain any
kind of college degree you want. At the end of your
4 years, you'll be an expert at memorization, but you
may also be dumb as a rock.
Few programs make a person really think and problem
solve anymore.
Here is an example......We send Johnny home in the
5th grade to study and memorize the cotton export weights
for a particular year in Honduras. The next day, Johnny has either memorized it or he hasn't .
We'll base his grade on how well he memorizes things.
When in Johnny's future will he ever need to know the exact amount of cotton exported from Honduras in 1964 . He will definitely need problem solving skills, but the time wasted on this won't help him in any form or fashion ?
Our current school systems waste so much valuable time with our young people.
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YES!
Teach people to think. Teach them to reason.
I had an Entlish teacher in HS who I argued with a bunch. She and I disagreed on much of Gullivers Travels. On a test we were asked to use examples from the book to prove something. I used examples to prove the opposite. I got full credit because I used a reasoning and showed I knew the material. Would that happen today?
Shooting is much the same. Learn to reason what happens and why. Observe what happens and make changes, see what happens. That is learning. Sometimes the "failures" are better learning tools than the successes.
Teach people to think. Teach them to reason.
I had an Entlish teacher in HS who I argued with a bunch. She and I disagreed on much of Gullivers Travels. On a test we were asked to use examples from the book to prove something. I used examples to prove the opposite. I got full credit because I used a reasoning and showed I knew the material. Would that happen today?
Shooting is much the same. Learn to reason what happens and why. Observe what happens and make changes, see what happens. That is learning. Sometimes the "failures" are better learning tools than the successes.
Yeah but they know all about Billy has two Mommies.
I've got good friends in CA, I was best man at their wedding. After married for a few years she decided to go back to school. She aced it, remarkable grades through 4 years of college. If she read it in a book and then took a test she was 100%, if the test was next week she remembered little of it. Not to knock my friends but she is dumb as a rock. With everyday life's little problems she was completely lost, couldn't even run the house or keep the bank account balanced but she made the Dean's list for achievement 4 years straight.
I've got good friends in CA, I was best man at their wedding. After married for a few years she decided to go back to school. She aced it, remarkable grades through 4 years of college. If she read it in a book and then took a test she was 100%, if the test was next week she remembered little of it. Not to knock my friends but she is dumb as a rock. With everyday life's little problems she was completely lost, couldn't even run the house or keep the bank account balanced but she made the Dean's list for achievement 4 years straight.
Bret4207
At the casting bench in the sky. RIP Bret.
At the elementary level, our states adoption of the Common Core program (and the vicious hell hole our local middle school has become) are what drove us to homeschooling. It's a HUGE chunk out of my day and I don't enjoy it at all. But, the results speak for themselves. Both my "special needs" kids have averages in the 90's now. My son had a 46 average for 3 years in school and they just kept pushing him up. My wife, the teacher, is retiring in a couple years and then I should get some help.
smokeywolf
Well-Known Member
I was a slightly better than average learner throughout school. Back then we still had a few teachers who taught subject material as it applied to real life jobs and situations. Today education is focused on, as Ben points out, memorization. Unfortunately, the curriculum which is forced upon most children by the public school systems is, to a great degree, designed around and corrupted by political correctness.
We have an unusual situation with one of our teen-aged boys. Although one is a slightly above average learner, the other is spooky smart. What makes the uber smart one really unusual is that aside from his uncanny reasoning abilities, he has a near photographic memory, is very athletic and very social.
We had to put him in private school at age 4, because at age 3 he was doing 2 and 3 place addition and subtraction in his head and by age 4, just before he started formal school, after 20 minutes of explanation, was calculating some of the simpler squares and cubes from and back to their roots, also in his head.
Because we had to deficit spend to keep him in private school, by age 6 he went to public school, which prompted many meetings and confrontations with teachers and school & district administrators because they where very resistant to presenting subject material to him that was advanced enough to keep up his interest. Although they liked the fact that he made them look good, they still wanted to dumb him down to more easily fit in to the "standard" curriculum.
Because he is also extremely into music, plays piano, percussion and saxophone for his high school, we are seriously handicapped in our search for home and land in Arkansas, Missouri, LA, MS, or AL. Been focusing on Rick and Winelover's neighborhood as the local high school and satellite campus of U of Arkansas is just about ideal for us.
Sorry for drifting.
smokeywolf
We have an unusual situation with one of our teen-aged boys. Although one is a slightly above average learner, the other is spooky smart. What makes the uber smart one really unusual is that aside from his uncanny reasoning abilities, he has a near photographic memory, is very athletic and very social.
We had to put him in private school at age 4, because at age 3 he was doing 2 and 3 place addition and subtraction in his head and by age 4, just before he started formal school, after 20 minutes of explanation, was calculating some of the simpler squares and cubes from and back to their roots, also in his head.
Because we had to deficit spend to keep him in private school, by age 6 he went to public school, which prompted many meetings and confrontations with teachers and school & district administrators because they where very resistant to presenting subject material to him that was advanced enough to keep up his interest. Although they liked the fact that he made them look good, they still wanted to dumb him down to more easily fit in to the "standard" curriculum.
Because he is also extremely into music, plays piano, percussion and saxophone for his high school, we are seriously handicapped in our search for home and land in Arkansas, Missouri, LA, MS, or AL. Been focusing on Rick and Winelover's neighborhood as the local high school and satellite campus of U of Arkansas is just about ideal for us.
Sorry for drifting.
smokeywolf
Pistolero
Well-Known Member
I started with a Lyman 310 in 7x57 for my old Model 1895 Chilean Mauser, and it did a good
job for a decade while I went through high school and college and grad school and could
FINALLY afford a press-- actually bought as a Christmas present by my new bride, a Rock
Chucker that I also still have and use.
Have been teaching a couple of young men how to load and started them on a RCBS Junior
that their father has had for years, but never loaded much and has forgotten most of it.
They got a Dillon 550 used and I told them "I forbid you to load with that until you have loaded
at least 1000 rds with the single stage press." Of course, I cannot really forbid them, but they
respect my opinion enough that they put it away and they agree that they need to learn what
in the heck they are doing before they start "running with scissors", so to speak. Smart kids,
I have mentored them in shooting since they were 5 and we started with a BB gun. Now they
are 18 and are pretty decent with both a pistol and rifle, and very safe, the safety rules are
just something that they have grown up with and they are deeply ingrained. Reloading
safety will be just as much second nature by the time we are done.
Old, simple, and easy to understand tools are the best way to start - you learn exactly
what it is you are doing at each stage. The Lyman 310 is a great tool, and I actually
primed cases with it for years after the Rock Chuck graced the bench because I thought
it gave better feel. The Lee single primer hand primer took over because I could
do different case sizes, and finally the Autoprime took over when they came out.
job for a decade while I went through high school and college and grad school and could
FINALLY afford a press-- actually bought as a Christmas present by my new bride, a Rock
Chucker that I also still have and use.
Have been teaching a couple of young men how to load and started them on a RCBS Junior
that their father has had for years, but never loaded much and has forgotten most of it.
They got a Dillon 550 used and I told them "I forbid you to load with that until you have loaded
at least 1000 rds with the single stage press." Of course, I cannot really forbid them, but they
respect my opinion enough that they put it away and they agree that they need to learn what
in the heck they are doing before they start "running with scissors", so to speak. Smart kids,
I have mentored them in shooting since they were 5 and we started with a BB gun. Now they
are 18 and are pretty decent with both a pistol and rifle, and very safe, the safety rules are
just something that they have grown up with and they are deeply ingrained. Reloading
safety will be just as much second nature by the time we are done.
Old, simple, and easy to understand tools are the best way to start - you learn exactly
what it is you are doing at each stage. The Lyman 310 is a great tool, and I actually
primed cases with it for years after the Rock Chuck graced the bench because I thought
it gave better feel. The Lee single primer hand primer took over because I could
do different case sizes, and finally the Autoprime took over when they came out.
Mikey
New Member
FWIW, I checked a LGS today that has several NIB 310 tools, but no .25-20. He had .38/.357, 30/06, and .244/6mm ($100 each), and die sets ($50) for .243, .270, 7mm Mag, 7mm MSM (?), 30-30, and .256 Win (used). Also a new set of large handles ($50). And what looked like a set of priming stems, but I'm not for certain; I dunno squat 'bout no 310 tools.
mike
Charles Graff
Moderator Emeritus
Lots of online information about the history and use of 310 tools...
