Accurate " Production Revolver ", 38/357 cal.

[Ben]

As far as factory production revolvers go, in your opinion, which factory produced 38 special or 357 mag. revolver would shoot the tightest groups at 50 yards with 38 Spec. Match grade ammo. Test would be done with a Ransom Rest to remove " the human variable ". Give us your opinion.

Ben

 

[Petrol & Powder]

Manurhin revolvers would probably be close to the top of the list.
An old S&W K-38 would probably make the list.
Colt barrels have a reputation of being tighter at the muzzle than the breach, which could be a factor.
Dan Wesson had a decent reputation.
From a Ransom Rest, just about any quality American DA revolver would probably be respectable if that particular revolver was set up correctly at the factory. Uniform cylinder throats, well cut forcing cone, good timing, cleanly cut muzzle, etc.

 

[Ben]

Can't argue any of your comments.
What about some more of you.......

 

[fiver]

MY Dan is dang good.
even with my poor handgun skills i was swinging the little 1-1/2" swingers at 30yds. pretty easily.
wish they'd never have made that into a falling plate rack.

the French make a 357 handgun for their Police that they shoot 100yds. with regularly, it's a darn capable revolver.

 

[Petrol & Powder]

I should probably add Freedom Arms to the list, if that qualifies as a "production revolver".

 

[Petrol & Powder]

the French make a 357 handgun for their Police that they shoot 100yds. with regularly, it's a darn capable revolver.

That's the Manurhin MR73

 

[Ben]

if that qualifies as a "production revovler".

It is a finely tuned one, but it is still a production revolver.

 

[RicinYakima]

Colt Officers Model Match, K-38 or Freedom Arms IF THEY ARE IN GOOD CONDITION!

 

[Outpost75]

Groups at 50 yards firing factory .38 Special wadcutter ammunition in a .357-chambered revolver will be about 15-20% larger than firing the same ammo in a similar revolver with .38 Special chamber. I tested this at Ruger comparing ten-boards of revolvers, refitting them with .38 Special cylinders and shooting them again. We also tested the .357 cylinders with SAAMI chamber and again after cleaning up with a "Bob Day .357 PPC" reamer which reduced the transition angle. A useful mod.

In my experience the most accurate "production" .357 revolvers were the original Colt 357, the Trooper .357 and the Python, due to their 14" twist barrels. The Ruger Blackhawk, properly tweaked and fed will do very nearly as well.

I never got as good grouping with the S&W Models 19, 27 or 28, despite access to Ransom and Broadway machine rests and a 50-yard test tunnel. But I learned that you could make the Ruger "Six" series really drive nails simply by fitting a Python barrel onto them and reducing the chamber to cylinder throat transition angle!

So, if you want a .357 revolver which really shoots well with .38 Special wadcutter with grouping, approaching the industrial test barrel, you must to reduce the transition angle from case mouth diameter to cylinder throats from 15 degrees, Basic (the half angle per side) to 6 degrees, Basic.

Accuracy is also noticeably improved by using the 1:14" twist of rifling of the Colt, as opposed to the 18-3/4" twist of the S&W. An even faster twist, as much as 1:10" was favored by a few gunsmiths building PPC match guns, Bill Davis, Bob Day and Jim Clark to name a few of the known notables.

Numerous gunsmiths, such as Reeves Jungkind and Bob Collins fitted Colt Python barrels to S&W or Ruger frames, aka Smolt or Cougar, which work very well. The faster twist is key!

Bill Duncan of Coffman Cove, AK has published several articles in The Fouling Shot issues #258 and #271, in which he used a scoped Bob Day PPC gun with 10" twist 9mm spec barrel to maintain linear dispersion in proportion to range, producing shot groups under 4 inches at 100 yards and shooting amazing groups with plunging fire to 200 yards and the HBWC bullets remained stable.

 

[RicinYakima]

Having owned north of 15 K-38's in my life, I have only kept one as the others were worn out by the time I bought them.

 

[Ben]

Many interesting points made here.

 

[Petrol & Powder]

And if $6000 / each qualifies as "production" the Korth is probably in the running.

 

[Outpost75]

Having owned north of 15 K-38's in my life, I have only kept one as the others were worn out by the time I bought them.

Many K38 owners make the mistake of using +P ammo in them. If limited for the life of the gun to the equivalent of factory wadcutter ammo only, in which pressures will not exceed 14kpsi, they will stay tight and accurate for 10,000 rounds. But hot duty loads will wreck the gun in under 1000 rounds.

 

[oscarflytyer]

once shot my 100 yo 38 SPC Colt Army Special at 165 yds off a bench at a 20"ish steel plate (mild loads for old gun and some wind). And could hit it occassionally/certainly not every time. But EVERYONE on the range that day could not believe I could even hit the plate! And I wasn't sure how it'd do. I certainly wouldn't say 'accurate,' but sure surprised everyone, and me a bit.

 

[CZ93X62]

Most accurate 38 Special ever (that I owned)--my Colt Officer's Model Target x 6", made 1949.

Most accurate 357 (as above) --Ruger Bisley Blackhawk x 7.5", made c. 2007.

Most accurate revolver/any caliber --S&W Model 16-4 x 6", 32 H&R Magnum, made 1989.

I stopped shooting "Special" calibers in Magnum chambers about 15 years ago.

 

[Outpost75]

once shot my 100 yo 38 SPC Colt Army Special at 165 yds off a bench at a 20"ish steel plate (mild loads for old gun and some wind). And could hit it occassionally/certainly not every time. But EVERYONE on the range that day could not believe I could even hit the plate! And I wasn't sure how it'd do. I certainly wouldn't say 'accurate,' but sure surprised everyone, and me a bit.

I am not at all surprised. I believe you. My 1939 Colt New Service does likewise with ordinary 158-grain LRN Rem-UMC "Police Service"'ammo from WW2.

 

[Glaciers]

Well this poor boy’s experience with a ransom rest is lacking. I did see one once. For me the Smith K frames would shoot better then I could. Started out with an 8 3/8 when I was younger that I would have sworn just could not miss a soda can, rock or pinecone. Have a couple of 6” K-14’s that are deadly, even in my hands. I haven’t shot paper with them, but golf balls at various distances are challenging and entertaining when a connection is made. As far as 38’s go I do remember a Colt Diamond Back that was a shooter.
But I don’t have the extensive experience with the verities of firearms that most here have, but, I’ve enjoyed the 14’s.
The Model 24 and the 625 are favorites as well, but not 38’s.

 

[Bret4207]

With factory ammo? You'd probably get some information looking back through the Bullseye shooting records. I've always found Smiths to be more accurate than Colts, but I've shot a LOT more Smiths than Colts. I do have an old Officers Model Match with a (IIRC) 7.5" barrel. It want's to lay them in there, but I'm not up to the task eye sight-wise anymore. Probably the high end purpose built target guns would be the best bet.

What is the goal of your query?

 

[Ben]

What is the goal of your query?

To probe the experience bases and opinions of our forum members on accurate production revolvers in 38 Special or 357 magnum.

 

[Petrol & Powder]

The original question is difficult not simply because it calls for opinion but also because it involves some chance.

Taking the human element out of the equation by using a Ransom Rest helps a little but there’s still lots of opportunity for chance to enter the equation.

A good revolver is more than just a good design, it also requires near perfect production of parts and excellent assembly. You could have a very good design but lose potential accuracy because of a poorly cut forcing cone or the existence of thread choke. A cylinder that leaves the factory with 5 good throats and 1 bad throat may ruin a particular revolver’s chance of making the cut. There are dozens upon dozens of areas in which poor parts or poor fitting of parts could produce a sub-standard revolver.

So, the question isn’t just which revolver has a good design but also includes the factor of which production revolver has the best chance of being subjected to high quality control and excellent assembly.

This is where cost REALLY enters the equation. There’s no secret about what it takes to make an accurate revolver. The trick is what are you willing to pay for? Guns like the Manurhin or Freedom Arms are not exotic designs, they are just made of good materials, with parts held to tight tolerances and exceptionally well fitted during assembly. That last part, the assembly by highly skilled workers, is the source of the highest cost and the source of the highest consistency of assembled products.

This doesn’t mean that excellent examples of lower cost guns are non-existent, but it does mean that the odds of finding one are higher.