Advice on three potential rifle projects .....

wquiles

Active Member
Going to the range and shooting my new 300BKB pistol has open my eyes to how nice a light firearm can be. Specially when at the same time I had my Savage M10 308 bolt gun. You can really tell the weight difference!

1) Savage 308 bolt gun:
Ian is already helping me on a replacement for the 308 bolt gun - I am slowly building a 308 semi-auto like his (PSA Gen 2 parts), so that is the first rifle I need/want to change/sell/rebore/etc.. I know folks like JES can rebore rifles, and I know Midway sells $150-ish replacement barrels for the Savage rifles, but I am not sure which way to go.


That rifle, weights right at 9 pounds even, without the scope, and 11 pounds even with the scope & mount. The Aluminum chassis is actually light, but the bull/heavy barrel makes the whole rifle "hefty", specially when something like the Ruger American Ranch in 450 Bushmaster is about 6.5lb and the Ruger Scout 450 Bushmaster is about 7.5lb.

I love the idea of something with the same bolt face, like a 358 Rem as an alternative, which should be a good project for JES. I am after "lighter the better", so if rebored I would first cut to 16.5", rethread for suppressor, and then sent out. Would I need to change/do anything with the 308 sled (pictured for single shots) or the AICS 308 mags that I have to shoot the 358 Rem?

Another potential would be the 450 Bushmaster, but I honestly don't know much more work that is compared to the 358 Rem. I got molds on hand for both the 358 and the 450, so good there.



2) The second rifle is actually even older - a Mauser. I don't even know the type. I had a gunsmith do all of the work: I just bought a Mauser at a gun show, and he did all of the work, including the 1-7 or 1-8, 22-250 bull barrel 20+ years ago. It has a really nice Timney trigger, so really nice there. Drill and tapped for scope mount, blued, and even has a fitted muzzle brake. I regret the caliber barrel now since it is just too heavy and no longer interested in "long range" shooting as I do most of my shooting at 50-100 yards, and I am having too much fun with the 30caliber and up, so not interested at the moment on a .22 call anything. The mauser is 9.6lb as shown in the pictures, and extremely front/barrel heavy for obvious reasons.

I understand that due to the "long" action I have different challenges in feeding and extracting cases compared to the Savage short action, but again, I would love something with a short 16.5" barrel (I am not after max speeds/velocities obviously), in the 35cal and up range.

I am providing lots of pictures so that you can tell me "what" is it that I have here:


















3) The 3rd rifle is the oldest, and I think my very first rifle: An AR-15 Rifle, DPMS upper with a heavy 16" stainless barrel, beautiful fluting, 1-8, cryo treated (bought fully assembled with bcg, etc.), JP adjustable gas block, short handguard, combined with a standard mil spec lower that I built myself 20+ years ago. I have not fired that rifle in at "least" 15+ years, and now with the 300BLK pistol, I simply have no use for it since the 300BLK is smaller, shorter, lighter, and a lot of fun to shoot :)

I have no idea what to do with this one, so l would say lets concentrate on the two above for now :)

So: suggestions, ideas, conversations to consider?

Or would selling at a gun show "as is" and using the funds to buy something new like the Ruger American or (better yet) the Ruger Scout rifle?


Thanks in advance,
Will
 
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freebullet

Well-Known Member
I'm definitely the odd man out on these subjects but...

Top one I'd leave 308 (because I love it & am well supplied with components) or get a 45 raptor barrel for.
Second one I'd leave as is because the 22-250 is a blistering cartridge with good power.
Third one I'd also leave alone & go shoot it! We had the panther bull 20 with a jp trigger & it was a great shooter, even at the very hot end of a 40 round mag. I miss that one even though we didn't shoot it much. Hindsight & all...
 

462

California's Central Coast Amid The Insanity
I, too, can't offer advise. However, the Mauser is a Czech VZ 24, manufactured Brno, and its intermediate length action, large ring receiver is 1/4" shorter than the conventional 7X57 mm and 8X57 mm military Mauser. After WW II ended, the Yugos re-worked Czech and Yugo 24s, thus their 8X57 mm chambered models 24/47, Model 48, 48A, 48B, and 52C.
 

Ian

Well-Known Member
I'm with Freebullet. Three great rifles in great calibers covering everything you'd need in North America. I could probably spend 3-5 years perfecting cast bullet loads just for those three. The 22-250 should be a ringer with cast except why on earth does it not have a 14" ROT??? Maybe rebarrel that one.

If ya just wanna play, why not expand your gunsmithing skills? With all the equipment you have, chambering and profiling barrel blanks should be a no-brainer. If I can profile, chamber, crown, headspace, and thread a barrel on a $700 mini-lathe than you can certainly doe it even better with yours. Green Mountain blanks are cheap and good, Savage barrels are about as simple as it gets to make, and with the .308 bolt face you can make anything from .458 Socom on down and turn your Savage into a switch-barrel.
 

fiver

Well-Known Member
that 22-250 will run circles around the 224 valkerie.
since it isn't needed Ian also knows a good re-barrel setup for it that would compare directly to the 308, and there is data for 100yd high velocity shooting for both calibers in a thread I started a while back.
the250 will also shoot cast easy enough from whatever up into the 2200fps zone with minimal effort.

as far as changing a 308 to something else to target shoot cast bullets?
don't even try.
you got what you need right there easy simple and effective.

either one will make holes right on top of another with just a little effort and a pile of powders from the bottom up through, well,,, up through 4831 if you care to try.
 

JonB

Central Minnesota
I had a customized VZ-24 with a 257 Robt barrel. That gun was a a great shooter with factory ammo, I never loaded for it. The seller told me the custom work was commissioned in the 1960s. All I can say, who ever did it, knew what they were doing. Walnut monte carlo stock with Rosewood grip cap and fore end tip...the bolt release was plum blued. It was a sweet looker.
 

Ian

Well-Known Member
It's been a light dinner, I do believe many here are showing some restraint....
 

CZ93X62

Redlands, Kalifornistan
The 22-250 with the fast twist is the Odd Man Out here for me--leave the 223 and 308 as-is, they are too useful to mess with. Great barrel life, superb accuracy, easy to find loads that work.

I have two 22-250s, 1 has 1-14" ROT and the other is a 1-12". With the fast twist, some of the more lightly-constructed varmint bullets might "blue-streak" downrange. The uber-fast RPMs could start spinning the bullets apart and leave lead vapor trails along their paths. That is why some of these bullets have "speed limits" (around 3400 FPS). Do the math on a 3800 FPS bullet spun in a 1-8" twist--342K RPM. Your rifle in its present state is best-adapted to hurling javelins--80-90 grain .224 jacketed bullets. Not cheap.

The 250 Savage is a right-fine caliber, and would only require a re-bore. Same story for 243 Win or any of the other 308 Win. progeny--from 6mm to 9.3mm only needs re-bore & re-chamber. The action was intended for the Mauser 57mm case length, so all of the metrics from 6.5mm-9.3mm are on the table here. 358 Winchester or 9 x 57/9.3 x 57 would likely work as well.
 

RicinYakima

High Steppes of Eastern Washington
We see many 1/8 twist 22/250's here in the PNW. They were used for kids and ladies deer rifles in the western states that allowed 22's for hunting. The 70 grain bullets were very effective, I was told, out to three hundred and you didn't need to worry about bullet drop. The down side is that they will "blue streak" with light bullets and aren't varmint rifles. FWIW
 

fiver

Well-Known Member
as far as the 'what you have there' part.
you have one of the best Antelope/coyote/rock chuck hunting long range rifles on the planet.
 

Spindrift

Active Member
My thoughts, for what it`s worth. Generally speaking, a gun can be as good as anything, but if it doesn`t suit your wants or needs- sell it, modify it, do something about it.

1) The Savage. For me, this is a very specialized tool that is all about one thing: accuracy. Some things are sacrificed to achieve this, like convenience/light weight etc. I would not rebore or cut the barrel, if it is in good condition. If you like the stock and general platform, I suggest a new barrel. But it should be a good barrel, cause this kind of rifle only makes sense if it is accurate. Keep the original if you want to sell it later. Reboring to a short .358win makes a long-range rifle with a short-range cartridge that might suit your needs, but the rifle will loose a lot of its monetary value. Personally, I would regard .308 win the perfect cartridge for this kind of rifle.
The Savage is probably easy to sell. A rifle I have in my «fantasy gun-safe» is a Remington 7, with a light High-tec stock in .358win and a supressor.

2) The mauser. In the current configuration, also a very specialized tool. Now, this would be an excellent platform for a .358 win (or .338 Fed, 8x57 etc etc) hunting (or recreational) rifle. If you don`t use it much like it is now, a simple rebarreling can transform the rifle. Balance is important.

3) AR-15? What is that :)

Good luck with your project! I have a little project of my own these days, Rem 700 LA gets fitted with threaded sleeve in front reciever ring (switch barrel system), barrels in .30-06/6,5x55/.44 auto mag. New stock, recoil lug, extractor. Lapping/bedding. Exciting!
 

wquiles

Active Member
About the "fast" twist rates on the AR/Mauser: although I have been casting for handguns for a while (45ACP was my very first, followed by 357Mag, 44Mag, and a custom 5-shot 500 Linebaugh made by the man himself [yes, I will talk about it on its own thread later - I promise]), I got the AR15 and Mauser when I had yet done any rifle bullet casting, and I thought all reloading for the AR & Mauser was going to be with jacketed bullets. Thus the AR was setup for the heaviest 22 call jacketed bullets which at the time called for an 1-8 which is what I got. I also thought the 22-250 would be great using those really heavy bullets for really long shots [I had access at the time to a 200yard range], thus the super-fast twist rate on the Mauser.

Now-a-days I realize that for cast shooting those two are not ideal, so I don't shoot either one at all, and they just sit on the safe and I have zero desire to cast and shoot 22cal bullets at the moment. I hate having rifles that I don't want to shoot/load for, thus why I started this thread to get feedback/perspectives.

The Mauser rifle I "do" like, and thanks much for letting me know what it is. I did some googling and found that it was made in the late 30's, early 40's - pretty neat. Besides the challenge with the caliber & twist rate, I hate the balance point (poorly researched on my side), and now that I want to shoot everything suppressed using my F1 suppressors, the barrel length is way too long. Right now my heart tells me a "thinner" 16.5" threaded barrel for the 358Win on the Mauser would be a great gun to "play" with and keep using this platform for years to come :)

Great feedback on the Savage, and the several options given. I have more to think about that one, but I will put that one on a back-burner for now, and leave "as is" until after I finish the semi-auto 308 rifle Ian is helping me with.
 

fiver

Well-Known Member
I'm getting exercise when mine is covered in dust.
it's main job is walk in rock chuck shooting, and there is usually a lot of 'walk in' involved, then it's using a sagebrush, walking stick, or rock as a rest.

that Mauser would also work as a 35 Remington, lower pressure and easy to suppress.
 

Rushcreek

Member
Save the AR for the next Demmunist administration price spike, Rebore and shorten the Mauser(.358Win), sell the Savage to complete your AR .308. IMHO.
 

popper

Well-Known Member
I'm not into bolt guns but get a GOOD (with proper extension in one of the lighter contours) 1:10 300BO or variant barrel for the ar15. Cast or 150 BO gold dots give you good 150 yd performance.
 

Rushcreek

Member
If you are not using the heavy barrel AR-15 I would save it for the next time we get the liberals in charge. You can probably make some good money on it then. You could sell the Savage and use the proceeds to complete your AR-10 308 and to have the 22-250 rebored to 358 Winchester for a dedicated cast bullet gun.
 

Ian

Well-Known Member
Personally, I think it's a good idea to maintain at least one rifle in both of the NATO calibers at all times. Add the .50 if you can. Everything else is recreational.