annealing straight wall brass (44 mag)

[castmiester]

I anneal bottle neck all the time.... no issues at all. Never did straight wall, pistol/revolver. I spin bottle neck chucked in a drill for 8 seconds. Thinking abut doing it the same way. Seeing a light blue hue after like 8 seconds doesn't sound the best way to do pistol/revolver.

How long ?

 

[Brad]

I don’t see a reason to annul handgun brass. One, are you a good enough shooter to see any improvement? Two, how well can you control how far down the case gets annealed? Three, if cases last 15 to 20 firings without annealing then what are you gaining?

 

[castmiester]

I thought l needed to anneal because l had inconsistent expanding with NOE expander plug. As l went along l realized l wasn’t adjusting the die enough. Once l reached the near the end of the step it made all the difference in the world. Had a brain fart and set it up wrong. Once l touched the case with the bottom of the plug, and turned down the die cap until l felt it stop on the larger step.. l gradually fit a bullet until it went in easy by hand and straight.

Although, a few bullets slip in easier than most. Past the short step that is over sized.

 

[Brad]

You don’t want it lose enough to slip it in by hand. Just enough flair to let the bullet start straight and not shave material on the mouth of the case.
How snug is OK? I have loaded 45 Colt in cases expanded with my 44 mg expander.
The Straight wall revolver cartridges tend to like lots of neck tension.

 

[castmiester]

It doesn’t, just the length of the larger step. If it isn’t stepped enough the bullet isn’t sitting straight, which that’s purpose of the M style die. A Firm crimp l was told. As far as lots of neck tension that would explain a .424 expander l have for .429 bullets. Makes sense now. Back and forth with NOE and .002 with my .434-.430 expander.

I’m running .431 jacketed and used the NOE .430 expander. Now that l’m thinking about it there’s no spring back, odd..l bought the NOE for my .432 casts. NOE recommended, which they had a .431-427, which he frowned on that. My .431 pin gauge slips in with slight resistance but is about the same as my .431 bullet. CH said a thou neck tension along with a firm grip is fine. As you can see l’m all over the place with advice.. now you’re saying alot of neck tension that they like.

 

[fiver]

your kind of on the right track with neck tension.
it's more important then/than ,whatever, the crimp, and [here comes my favorite word,,, right next to 'measure stuff'] consistency is the top dog here.
.003,,.002,,.002.,,.003,,.004 ain't gonna cut it.

 

[castmiester]

That’s why l was leaning towards annealing but it looks like l have to reserve the NOE M style step expander for my .432 casts, and use my .430 cowboy ( actually is .428 expander) and have .003 tension. BTW… where’s the spring back?

 

[fiver]

case dependent.
they all use different amounts of zinc in the mix, and .0014 is not really the standard.
the other thing you have to watch is bullet squish.

 

[castmiester]

Using PMC brass

Duh, yeah, you can’t have too much tension for casts, lm filling the throats!!

Im on jacketed too. But even with the NOE expander, l get .002 tension, even though it feels on the loose side. Seems to look like the straight wall necks are thinner that my rifle necks.

 

[Rushcreek]

I just annealed 70 .357 mag brass by standing them waist deep (their waist- not mine) in water in a cake pan. Then heating them with a torch in dim light and tipping them over at the right time.
This makes forming .256 Win from .357 much easier with fewer culls.
Other than that I don’t anneal straight wall cases.

 

[fiver]

(their waist- not mine)

chuckle.
been here long nuff to have learned huh?

 

[castmiester]

You don’t want it lose enough to slip it in by hand. Just enough flair to let the bullet start straight and not shave material on the mouth of the case.
How snug is OK? I have loaded 45 Colt in cases expanded with my 44 mg expander.
The Straight wall revolver cartridges tend to like lots of neck tension.

Ok I mentioned about an old expander that has a .324 expander. .007 or say in my case with an oversized groove at .431 jacketed would be .008 tension. And I have a .430 cowboy expander that is actually .428 would be in my case .003.

You would say use the .324 expander ? Only problem is too much case bulge and stiff chambering. The .430 cowboy has a slight barely seen bulge and chambers fine. You mentioned FL dies that don't over size.

I have loaded 45 Colt in cases expanded with my 44 mg expander.

How did you manage bulge ?

A quote from "How much Neck Tension ?" 2018 It's your thread you started Brad, with the question.

So what sizer and what expander should be used ??

 

[CWLONGSHOT]

IMHO, the biggest reason straight wal dosent see much need of annealing is most straight wall is hand gun and run at lower pressure vastly extending life of the brass.

But in no way I see can doing so hurt. It still does crack on us so it is still being work hardened and annealing can elevate this.

I anneal my straight wall RIFLE stuff and have for decades.

45/70, 444, 375 and now my 450 & 350 cases. See benefit and extended lifespans as a result.

CW

 

[Brad]

Chambering issues are not from the bulge created by using a smaller expander. Bullet diameter plus wall thickness determine loaded round dimensions. Xander diameter has no role in that.

How much is enough? Depends. Powder type and qty matter. Gun type matters. Bullet design matters.

A revolver in say 44 mag using H110 I want all I can get and a good crimp too. Why? Because the powder ignites better that way and a revolver firing heavy loads is one hell of an inertia type bullet puller.

No one size fits all answer here. Experimentation and experience gives each of us some boundaries we are comfortable within. I learned when I had quits with WC820 in my 44 mag and I learned that neck tension and crimp made that go away.

 

[Petrol & Powder]

I played with this a few years ago in an attempt to improve case life (reduce splits on casings after many loading cycles)
Decided it was a total waste of time and effort. The pay-off, assuming there's a pay-off at all, was not worth it.

 

[Winelover]

Nope, never once annealed handgun brass. Most handgun brass, I can average 20 reloadings, without neck splits. Calibers, like 44 Magnum can then be trimmed to 44 Special and or 44 Russian, extending useful case life. The same is true of 357 Magnum.

 

[Cadillac Jeff]

Nope same here....

I got better places to waste my time...

J
E
E
P

 

[Rick]

I played with annealing revolver brass for an accuracy comparison. Found that it's extremely difficult to get consistency all the way around all of the brass even using a BC Auto annealer, other methods of annealing gave far worse results. For the big/important matches I used only virgin brass, the anneal will never be any better than it is when new.

 

[castmiester]

Chambering issues are not from the bulge created by using a smaller expander. Bullet diameter plus wall thickness determine loaded round dimensions. Xander diameter has no role in that.

How much is enough? Depends. Powder type and qty matter. Gun type matters. Bullet design matters.

A revolver in say 44 mag using H110 I want all I can get and a good crimp too. Why? Because the powder ignites better that way and a revolver firing heavy loads is one hell of an inertia type bullet puller.

No one size fits all answer here. Experimentation and experience gives each of us some boundaries we are comfortable within. I learned when I had quits with WC820 in my 44 mag and I learned that neck tension and crimp made that go away.

Slower burring definitely needs a heavier crimp, but for 240 weight, considering that there are heavier bullets that need this powder or does this weight do fine with H110 ? I just picked up A 2400 and have A bluedot. We'll see.

Chambering issues are not from the bulge created by using a smaller expander

Oh contraire, yes they do.

Xander diameter has no role in that.

I believe they do......They don't expand enough, from what I saw and see and experienced and the bullet does the rest as you pointed out. I saw it and see it especially with casts and now with an over sized jacketed bullet. I mean don't get me wrong, they chamber with the bulge, but not to my liking, a little to stiff, and definitely extract stiffer, not good. If I'm doing something wrong to have this bulge, which I don't think I am, let me know.

How much neck tension?

For a revolver cartridge is there an ideal neck tension? I am asking how much under bullet diameter is the ideal expander size. Does it differ for a cartridge with more powder capacity and slower powders used like a 44 mag vs a fast powder cartridge like a 38 special? I want to make a few...

www.artfulbullet.com

you said in the above post...... quoted below

Yes, my bullet is doing the expanding.