Another Range Day: CBE bore rider, Ly. #311466, and Saeco #315

[Maven]

After my last outing with the above mentioned bullets, I thought a 2nd test was called for. This time, however, I annealed the LC Match brass, neck sized & M die'd it, and paid more attention to OAL and was rewarded by easy chambering and decent accuracy out of my .30-06 Win. Mod. 70 Westerner (blind mag.). Both the CBE 185gr. bore rider and Ly. #311466 were sized to .311", but the Saeco #315's were bumped and tapered in a Hanned* die purchased long ago. It usually will turn a so-so to accurate CB into a tack driver, even when you omit the gas check. (It flattens the base and "removes" the GC shank.) The -315's were thus treated, i.e., tapered with a GC. The powder charge was 49.5gr. WC 860 (thrown) ignited by Win. LR magnum primers.

The results: Well, I have the targets in front of me and will photograph and post pics tomorrow or Friday, but they were pretty good. There were no surprises, as -315 (with a gas check!) proved once again to be worth the effort to run it through the Hanned die. The CBE bore rider was almost as accurate, but I shot 20 of them v. only 14 for Saeco #315. The surprise was Ly. #311466, which was impressively accurate for 10 shots, but then the group opened due to 1 flyer and my lack of concentration. You see for yourself when I post the pics...and I promise not to crop out the offending hits.

Btw, I lubed both the -315's and -466's with Lars' Liquid Xlox, and saw no evidence of bore leading. No bore leading (ever!) with the conventionally lubed CBE's. Also, just for laughs I used the Hanned die to reduce, bump, and taper 4 195gr. CBE Loverins just to see how they would shoot. In short, they grouped as well as the 20gr. lighter [tapered] Saeco #315's.



*Hanned/The Hanned Line produced tools for CB and .22 rimfire modification and was run by Ed Wosika and named after himself and his wife, Hanna.

 

[yodogsandman]

Can't wait to see the photos! Could you include a Hanned die photo

 

[Maven]

Yodog...., Here's pic of the Hanned die with flat pointing top punch "permanently" installed (i.e., I can't get it out!), flat faced bottom punch and 2 Lee 30-150-TL plain based CB's. The one with red lube has been reformed via the die. Before there were many custom mold makers, Ed Wosika's product, which was fitted to one's particular rifle via a somewhat laborious process (He provided detailed instructions, but the buyer did the measuring). turned undersized, underperforming CB's into m.o.a. or less shooters. In my own case, it turned the undersized Lee-C-309-180R into a tack driver. Ditto Lyman #311291, which wouldn't shoot well in either my .30-06 or .30-30Win.

 

[Maven]

Here are the targets, starting with CBE 185gr. FP-GC bore rider (20 shots), Saeco #315 reformed via the Hanned die (14 shots), and Ly. #311466 (15 shots). Btw, each leg of the "diamond" is 3".

 

[Maven]

Apparently, Ly. #311466 didn't show up in the above post. Here it is :

 

[Ian]

Fit is King. I have a very strong dislike for generic, two-diameter bullets because (like most universal styles of anything) "one size fits nothing". You just illustrated the difference between generic fit and custom fit.

 

[Maven]

Well, yes and no Ian as I find it hard to shoot tiny groups after 10 shots, regardless of bullet design. Both the CBE and the "customized" Saeco #315 will shoot equally well if two 10 shot groups are compared. After that, it may be more a question of CB fit, but I think a better shooter [than I] is needed to determine that. Moreover, tapered CB designs such as Ed Schmitt's original #311644 (Lyman) and the current NOE 30 Hunter probably have rendered Hanned dies obsolete.

 

[Ian]

It's difficult for most anyone to shoot consecutive, 10-shot groups without inducing some human error. About $300 worth of quality leather, steel, sand, and talcum/mica/graphite can help that a whole lot. Proper alloy for the task and a better than average bullet lube is the rest of the story. Bullet fit is only part of it, alloy and powder is the second part of fit, dynamic fit, which is probably more important to good groups than static fit as you make it at the loading bench.

The importance of exactly the right alloy for the job, and having it at the right temper for what you ask it to do, cannot be overstated yet is almost universally ignored.

 

[JSH]

Maven that PB looks a lot like the 135-140 that was done some years back at CB board.

There was a lull in group buys from Lee. So I described to 452.1 what I wanted. He could not have done a better job drawing it up if I was sitting across from him. I forget what came up but it got put on the back burner for quite a while. Another gent picked it up and ran with it. Then the wait began, actually I had forgotten I ordered it, and it showed up one day. I want to say over year later.
Lee messed up the initial design a bit and the nose was t quite right. It was either send them all back for replacement or keep them. This was also knowing it could be another year wait.
Mine is a good shooter for the most part and is a bit over sized drops .314ish with my alloy. Works good in the 32's also.

 

[yodogsandman]

Maven, thanks for the photo. Now, I understand "bump" dies much better. Is the Hanned Die made to custom fit just one rifles throat or all rifle throats? I mean, is it cut with the same throat cutter as your rifle?

 

[Maven]

Can't wait to see the photos! Could you include a Hanned die photo

Maven, thanks for the photo. Now, I understand "bump" dies much better. Is the Hanned Die made to custom fit just one rifles throat or all rifle throats? I mean, is it cut with the same throat cutter as your rifle?

In a word, no. Ed sent elaborate instructions for what we now know as a "pound cast" of the throat area using your own CB and rifle. Additionally, there were equally detailed instructions for setting the die up for the best CB fit in the/your rifle's throat. Although it presents an extra step, it has worked for me with various underperforming molds in my rifle. Additionally, flattening either the gas check if used or the CB base and GC shank so you can use CB's designed for a gas check without them is just icing on the cake. Btw, those group buy Lee 30-150-TL's I included in the photo are more consistently accurate once bumped/tapered in the Hanned die...if I want to take the extra step to do so.

 

[KHornet]

Have a 311466 sing cav. that I bought years back, and am not sure I have ever cast it, for
sure not in recent years. Will have to run 100 or so the next time I cast.
Paul

 

[35 shooter]

Good day at the range for sure. Very nice results. Worth the extra time with the Hanned die .

 

[Maven]

Good day at the range for sure. Very nice results. Worth the extra time with the Hanned die .

You're right, 35 s, I think I will make more use of it.