Back to 38 special

[Petrol & Powder]

9mm 147 gr pick a shape 35kpsi 950 fps MV.
38 Special 158 gr pick a shape 875 factory standard 975 +p ......
9mm 125 1250 fps
38 125 1050 +p 1100 .
If not for the closed chamber vs cyl gap there's just not enough difference to warrant all of the hoop lah about the infinite superiority of the 9mm .
I don't see one

I'm not sure I agree with all of that. The 9mm Luger is a high pressure cartridge that was designed around a bullet weight of 115-125grains. In that arena the 9mm shines.
So, I'll give you some of that, but the 147 grain 9mm loads were a horrible idea for anything other than subsonic loads for suppressed weapons.


I really like both the 38 Special and the 9mm Luger, but they work in entirely different ways. While the diameters are very similar, the pressures and typical bullet weights make the cartridges very different. There seems to be a strong urge to use the similar diameters of those bullets to lump the cartridges together. And of course, both cartridges were invented about the same time. 1898 - for the 38 Special and 1901 for the 9mm.

 

[JWinAZ]

Besides being a delight to handload for and shoot, used .38 Sp revolvers are often available at reasonable prices. One of my favorites is this 1977 Model 67. I replaced the grips with new S&Ws that fit my hand well. The case was in the used bin and I couldn't resist.

 

[CZ93X62]

That is one fine Model 67!

 

[Petrol & Powder]

That is one fine Model 67!

I concur

 

[Winelover]

Many years ago, I read a article comparing effectiveness of pistol/revolver cartridges for social work. At that time, 357 Magnum (125 HP) had much better one shot stops than the 45ACP.

Now, 125 grain weight bullets, loaded in the 9mm cartridge are closer to the velocity of 357 Magnum with 125's than any 38 Special +P loading by almost 200 fps. Consequently, the 9mm outshines the 38 Special and is almost a 357 Magnum...........by my line of reasoning.

That being said, 95% of the time, you will find a 38 Special in my pocket. Mostly, because it's lighter in weight and the first shot up, can be loaded with snake shot, without having to manually cycle the action of a semi automatic with a shot load in the chamber. I only load 158 grain cast bullets for practice, in my fixed sighted 38's. My carry loads are all factory with lighter than nominal weight bullets. The factories offer these loads specifically designed for short barrels using flash suppressed powders.

The only 38 Special chambered revolvers in my stable are all short barreled J-frames, since longer barreled 357's will serve double duty for target practice.

I do like the 9mm cartridge. About the cheapest centerfire to shoot. Especially, for those that don't reload. I currently own a half dozen 9's, including one carbine. Still waiting for the LGS to locate a Henry Homesteader carbine that accepts Sig Sauer and/or S&W magazines.

 

[CZ93X62]

I largely concur with Winelover's text above concerning the relative energies on target of the 38 Special--the 9mm Luger--and the 357 Magnum. 124-125 grain factory loads respectively provide (in 4" barrels) 1000-1025 PFPS in 38 Special +P, 1225-1250 FPS in 9mm, and 1425-1450 FPS in 357 Magnum. These are all book values and I have personally verified these figures in my own sidearms with my chronography. The 9mm is a mid-point between the 38 Spec. +P and the 357. Just be mindful that a 1-7/8"-2.75" barrel forfeits significant velocity in all three calibers. Since the Glock 43 arrived a while back it has become my deep concealment/summer carry option and my S&W Model 642 has been relegated to Safe Queen status. The G-43 carries more rounds--those rounds are more powerful--and a refill is far easier if needed. If I am carrying, I ALWAYS carry a refill.

In the real world the concept pf the "One-Shot Stop" loses traction once the exchange of finality commences. It is 2023--not 1923. Shooting bad guys moving away from you and not firing upon you is greatly frowned upon, as is firing upon those removing your property without permission without posing a lethal threat. Very poor form. I try my best to not feed lawyers whenever possible. Once sent, you can't call bullets back for a reset. The people that both cops and citizens lawfully fire upon are up close--personal--and posing extreme risk of taking life or causing great bodily harm. Such goblins need immediate stopping, and should be fired upon until that stop is made. It is for this reason that I embraced the autopistol over the wheelgun when they became authorized for carry. With the 35 calibers I want as close to 1200 FPS as I can get, also. The FBI subsonic 9mm barely equals the 38 Special, and lots more marginal stoppers in a magazine don't provide warm fuzzy feelings for me. The Facklerites that pimped that stuff need relegation to Dante's 9th Circle Of Hell, in my humble estimation.

 

[Petrol & Powder]

First, I largely agree with prior comments.

Side-stepping the discussion about the terminal ballistics of the 38 Special and focusing on the non-deadly force aspects of the cartridge – It is just a downright joy as a target cartridge. The 38 Special is also a bullet caster and cartridge reloader’s dream.

Compared to the bigger bores, it’s easier on lead and powder. The straight walled casings last nearly forever and they are easier to recover than casings from a self-loading pistol. The cartridge is very forgiving to reload but it does respond favorably when attention to detail is observed.

In today’s world there are better options for self-defense cartridges BUT that doesn’t mean the 38 Special is incapable of serving in that role, it just means there are better options. The 38 Special gets overshadowed a bit due to the excellent options now available.

The old 125 grain semi wadcutter, semi jacketed HP 357 magnum cartridges were, and still are, very effective self defense cartridges. This was classically exemplified by the old Federal 357B loading and is the standard by which all other 357 and 9mm handgun self-defense cartridges are compared to. The current crop of 9 mm rounds available for self-defense are the best we’ve ever had. The contemporary 115-125 grain 9mm +P, JHP rounds are very close to the old 125 grain 357 magnum cartridges. Yes, they fall a little short of the velocity of the 357 magnum from a 4” barrel and therefore have a little less muzzle energy. But that’s like saying a 95-pound anvil is weaker than a 100-pound anvil. They will both likely work just fine.

The 125 grain JHP 357 Magnum round has a strong and well-established track record as a self-defense cartridge out of a 4” or longer barrel. It gives up a little velocity in a shorter barrel but not enough to really matter. The current 9mm +P 115-125 grain JHP rounds are very competitive to the 125 Gr, JHP 357 Magnum AND have the added benefit of the platform they are launched from (higher capacity in the gun, faster reloads, work well with shorter barrels, and more compact guns in general).

Leaving the cartridge war discussion again – the 38 Special is just downright FUN for a reloader and recreational shooter. And, while perhaps a bit outclassed by current options, it remains a viable self-defense cartridge.

 

[CZ93X62]

True that, P&P. My biases spill over with frequency here--don't mind me.

 

[Creeker]

I love the 38. I shoot a 6" M14, 4" M67, & several model 10s of different barrel lengths. The standard weight WFN or SWC I would not want to stand in front of. That said this cartridge along with the 45ACP bring the greatest joy to my life in the world of sixguns.