BlackHorn 209

[Mitty38]

Ok, Got the Blackhorn Breach for my CVA and bought a couple pound of Blackhorn 209. A while back.

I got a little load card and it is listing BlackHorn loads for the .38 special and .357.

Knowing that 38 special, and 45 Colt, were originally black powder, lead bullet, rounds. Got me thinking.

Has anyone loaded any of the "originally black powder pistol cartridges" with this stuff?

If so what Primers were used and how bad was the clean up?

Will there be an ignition problem with small pistol primers?
The load calls for magnum primers.
Are magnum or large pistol primers definatly needed for this, powder? I know it does better with a larger primer hole in the thunder stick. I have shot it with the other breach, but there was a little ignition lag.That is why I bought the breach.
I got lucky and got a trade, a 100 CCI #500 primers for a 100 regular small rifle primers.
Have plenty of H-110, Universal and Red Dot. So do not really need too....but
Still would like to get some info on this for future use, even if I decide to not to load it with regular primers.

 

[CWLONGSHOT]

Im sure it's been done.

But Id not attempt it.

If ya need to why not just use pyrodex its loads are everywhere. Or are ya just wanting to use it up?

BH209 is some kinda voodoo. Its strongly advised only to be used with a 209. Even then my H&R with those orange discs is NOT ADVISED!! I guess too much "leakage"???

I bought a pound when I found some I could afford.... maybe a year back. Then discovered I could not even use it!!!!! One H&R uses a "25 acp ignition". Its nothing but a breech plug thats "chambered" for a 25 acp case. In the case is a SRM primer. It works wonderfully for BP and Pyrodex and trip7. But apparently NOT ADVISED for BH209....

SO, do as you will. Pretty sure its not a over pressure thing its likely an ignition thing that could lead to squibs and stuck bullets. A PIA and dangerous if not known.

Just my two cents.
CW

 

[Mitty38]

Im sure it's been done.

But Id not attempt it.

If ya need to why not just use pyrodex its loads are everywhere. Or are ya just wanting to use it up?

BH209 is some kinda voodoo. Its strongly advised only to be used with a 209. Even then my H&R with those orange discs is NOT ADVISED!! I guess too much "leakage"???

I bought a pound when I found some I could afford.... maybe a year back. Then discovered I could not even use it!!!!! One H&R uses a "25 acp ignition". Its nothing but a breech plug thats "chambered" for a 25 acp case. In the case is a SRM primer. It works wonderfully for BP and Pyrodex and trip7. But apparently NOT ADVISED for BH209....

SO, do as you will. Pretty sure its not a over pressure thing its likely an ignition thing that could lead to squibs and stuck bullets. A PIA and dangerous if not known.

Just my two cents.
CW

My CVA has a two breach plug option. One is for white hots ect. And the other 209.
I use the 209 in the CVA. But I got a load card with my 2 lbs of 209. It lists 38 special, 45 long 357 . Kinda got me curious, so I got on the black horn websight they have a lot of black powder cartridge loads listed.
But From what you are telling me and the info. I am taking it that with the Black powder loads, must have either a large pistol primer or a magnum primer. Makes sense since the only difference in the breach plugs for the CVA is the size of the hole and the fact that the black horn plug uses a rubber o ring to help the primer seal.
I have experienced ignition problems when I used the wrong breech plug.
So will probable wait till I can get some magnum primers. But would like to try it in my 357 eventually.

 

[CWLONGSHOT]

Well thats good then.
Raises the question to myself "Why did they so strongly advise against my small rifle mag primed ignition with BH209???

CW

 

[Rick H]

It is the very devil to ignite the stuff. The Blackhorn 209 breechplug is counterbored so the flame has less distance to travel than with the standard Breechplug. The counterbore is about an inch deep. There is no difference other than that between the two CVA plugs that I have. The primer flash has to travel 1 5/8" with the standard and only 5/8" with the Blackhorn 209 plug.

 

[Mitty38]

It is the very devil to ignite the stuff. The Blackhorn 209 breechplug is counterbored so the flame has less distance to travel than with the standard Breechplug. The counterbore is about an inch deep. There is no difference other than that between the two CVA plugs that I have. The primer flash has to travel 1 5/8" with the standard and only 5/8" with the Blackhorn 209 plug.
View attachment 19554

THANKS FOR POSTING THE PIC. I HAVE MY STUFF PUT AWAY FOR NOW. The Blackhorn breech is in the gun.
I did not realize the counter boar was that much more pronounced. I was thinking it just had a bit bigger counter bore. Guess my memory failed me a bit.
Picture is worth a thousand words as they say. Gives a much better visualization of what is going on with ignition.
I can understand why it can be used in black powder 38 spcl-357cartridges, with a magnum primer now. Seems the stuff needs to be right up on the spark. A brass cartridge and a magnum primer would do that.
Kinda explains why it will not work in a lot of other muzzle loaders as well.
Bet ya with too much distance between the primer and powder you can get a situation where you get ignition, but incomplete ignition, squibs. Defiantly know delayed fire is possible with the wrong breech plug. Been there, done that, once.

 

[Mitty38]

https://www.blackhorn209.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/b209blackpowdercartridgedata.pdf
Here is a link to their PDF. Notice all Magnum Primers. And very specific as to which ones.