Bore Rider

[Mitty38]

Please educate me. What the heck are you guys talking about,.
I get this mental image of a gremlin riding a surf board down your gun barrel.
The light bulb is just not coming on here.
I know its a bullet type.
What shape, design? What is the thinking involved in using this design compared to others? Where did the name come from, what does it imply? Where is it best put to use? Where is it best not used? What makes it what it is?

 

[obssd1958]

My understanding -
Every rifled barrel has two dimensions for the inside diameter. One is the bottom of the grooves, and the other is the tops of the lands. So, as an example, the .308 has (generally) .308 to the bottom of the grooves, and .300 to the top of the lands. A bore rider refers to the nose section, which in this case is a bit longer than normal and has parallel sides, of the boolit riding on the top of the lands. The dimensions of said boolit, in the case of the .308 referenced above, might be .310 on the drive bands, and .300 or .299 on the nose.
someone will probably come along and give a more concise definition, but I hope that gives the gist of it.

 

[Mitty38]

Thanks

 

[Spindrift]

This is a technical drawing of a bore rider. You’ll notice there is one diameter (.311) on the driving bands, and another (.300) on the nose. The idea is, the nose will be supported by the lands during launch, to keep the bullet centered in the bore.
If all the dimensions are correct, and your load is relatively timid (like 16grs of 2400, or something), bore riders can be very accurate. They do not, however, tolerate spicier loads very well.

If you’d like to try a bore rider mould for your -06 that is affordable, the Lee c312-185 has worked well for me, in all my .30- cal rifles.

 

[Mitty38]

I See......so it's like an alignment thing. I bet it would be a very good bullet to use for a bolt system like is designed on the Axis. Meaning the Axis designed to kind of let the cartridge and bullet to float a bit, self align as you are closing the bolt.So this bullet could help maximize that effect.
I could see where this could be very useful in the axis especially with a middle of the road load.

 

[Brad]

They can work well IF the nose is just right in fitting the bore. Too lose and it wobbles, too tight and chambering can be difficult.
They also do well at lower velocities but can fail horribly if driven fast. I would keep them in the 16-1700 FPS range tops.

 

[Will]

I was afraid of violating on copyrighted material so i didn’t post a pic.
If you google picture of bore rider bullet in a barrel there are a couple good illustrations that pop up in images.

 

[popper]

can fail horribly if driven fast Just curious, don't use them. Any good reasons why?

 

[Will]

Most bore riders fail at high velocity due to base riveting during initial launch.

 

[JWFilips]

None of my bore rider cast bullets are skinny enough in the nose to "ride the bore" I just use them like any other cast bullets....load the long enough to touch the lands and they work fine

 

[Ian]

Barlow bullets.

"Bore rider" is something that becomes a myth past about 1800 fps. because 12-20 bhn lead alloy isn't supported much at all by four or six little knife-edged lands inside yer barrel, no matter how much you want it to. Once you get past a certain pressure the bullet goes anywhere but straight because that's the nature of pushing something from behind with gas pressure. The lands just sluce into the nose until the bullet digs into the grooves on one side.

Barlow bulletd do best when fitted very snugly to the lands and the first full-diameter band is parked firmly into the ball seat. They also do best with fireformed, minimally-sized brass that holds the bullet base as straight as possible inline with the bore before firing. These types if bullets have NO significant self-aligning properties and are the principal reason (IMO) why most people think cast bullets have to be kept to low velocities with fast-burning powder.....or be made super-hard to have any hope of grouping well.

 

[Mitty38]

Barlow bullets.

"Bore rider" is something that becomes a myth past about 1800 fps. because 12-20 bhn lead alloy isn't supported much at all by four or six little knife-edged lands inside yer barrel, no matter how much you want it to. Once you get past a certain pressure the bullet goes anywhere but straight because that's the nature of pushing something from behind with gas pressure. The lands just sluce into the nose until the bullet digs into the grooves on one side.

Barlow bulletd do best when fitted very snugly to the lands and the first full-diameter band is parked firmly into the ball seat. They also do best with fireformed, minimally-sized brass that holds the bullet base as straight as possible inline with the bore before firing. These types if bullets have NO significant self-aligning properties and are the principal reason (IMO) why most people think cast bullets have to be kept to low velocities with fast-burning powder.....or be made super-hard to have any hope of grouping well.

So your saying a very good tool, but often misused.
I can visualize that if a bore rider did not have a good fit to the bore, and the base grabbed to the lands that this could tip the bullet this way or that. Then this could cause issues with accuracy.
Basically you need the right tool for the job.
Thank you very much for your input. Kinda put the Icing on the cake for me as far as getting a grasp on this.
People make un or under educated decisions all the time.
As you probably already know. I am here, to keep from being one of those people.

 

[Mitty38]

I was afraid of violating on copyrighted material so i didn’t post a pic.
If you google picture of bore rider bullet in a barrel there are a couple good illustrations that pop up in images.

I googled it and found a pick from the boolet sight. It was very descriptive.
I actually had to do the # thing to find it bullet# bore rider#in barrel.

 

[Joshua]

I use the end of my barrel to check this type of bullet. It’s the first thing I do when I cast with a new bore riding mold. The rifling at the throat is just a bit tighter than it is at the business end of my M1917 (this is the original barrel and I believe that years of cleaning enlarged the bore). If I can insert the bullet all the way to the driving bands and there is no wiggle I will use bullets from this mold in this rifle. If however, the bullets from this mold wiggle in the end of the bore I call them undersized and I move on to another mold. If I powder coated I could bump them up, but I haven’t gotten into that yet. This method of measuring seems to work accuracy wise for this old rifle with a changing bore diameter.
Josh

 

[Mitty38]

I use the end of my barrel to check this type of bullet. It’s the first thing I do when I cast with a new bore riding mold. The rifling at the throat is just a bit tighter than it is at the business end of my M1917 (this is the original barrel and I believe that years of cleaning enlarged the bore). If I can insert the bullet all the way to the driving bands and there is no wiggle I will use bullets from this mold in this rifle. If however, the bullets from this mold wiggle in the end of the bore I call them undersized and I move on to another mold. If I powder coated I could bump them up, but I haven’t gotten into that yet. This method of measuring seems to work accuracy wise for this old rifle with a changing bore diameter.
Josh

Good tip, as I am getting ready to get a 30 06 mold. Was just thinking how to check fit of a bore rider. So just stickin g the thing down the business end to check fit. Then if it's casting big enough just size to take care of the drive band.

 

[Joshua]

Mitty38,

In my case, a snug fit at the end of my barrel, is engraving at the throat. For a new barrel I would expect it to engrave at both ends.
Josh

 

[Mitty38]

Mitty38,

In my case, a snug fit at the end of my barrel, is engraving at the throat. For a new barrel I would expect it to engrave at both ends.
Josh

Good tip, my 06 has only seen 202 rounds. Yes I am keeping an actual count. The 2 rounds are the ones the original owner shot thru it, before he put it up for a few years then,sold it to me.
So it is just now getting broke in as they say.
So I take it, I should actual get just enough engrave to notice on the rider section.

 

[Joshua]

I still pretty new to this hobby. But, yes that is my understanding. A light engraving is good. It has worked for me.
I have a 311284U that is so undersized on the nose and driving bands that I can’t use it in this gun. It just wobbles around. I haven’t tried to Beagle it yet. That might work.
It wasn’t listed as an undersized “U” mold in the sellers description. Funny thing is that I have a 311291U that as cast is just the right size for my gun.
If powder coated the 311284U might work. I haven’t taken that plunge yet.

Josh

 

[Spindrift]

PC might pose a solution to the under-sized nose. However, the thickness of the coat can show slight variability. If you end up with a coated nose with very close-to-land diameter, you might occationally have chambering issues. Which can be remedied with a nose sizer (NOE push-through kit will accomodate nose sizer bushings).

While the bore riders work well within their «instructions for use», they offer some unnecessary limitations as well. Which is why I don’t use them much, these days.

Cheap, good, non-borerider for the 30-06 or .308? Lee ctl 312-160!

 

[Joshua]

PC might pose a solution to the under-sized nose. However, the thickness of the coat can show slight variability. If you end up with a coated nose with very close-to-land diameter, you might occationally have chambering issues. Which can be remedied with a nose sizer (NOE push-through kit will accomodate nose sizer bushings).

While the bore riders work well within their «instructions for use», they offer some unnecessary limitations as well. Which is why I don’t use them much, these days.

Cheap, good, non-borerider for the 30-06 or .308? Lee ctl 312-160!

I originally purchased the 311284U because I wanted a 200 plus grain “long range” bullet. I will most likely sell it. I have now picked up a two cavity Lyman 311290. This will be my next experiment.
I had wanted to attend one of the CBA matches that they have here in Washington State. My thinking was that I needed a long and heavyweight bullet for one of these competitions. But with our current health crisis this has been put on the back burner. Maybe next year!
Josh