Bullet fit the throat??

[johnnyjr]

It's ok if it isn't correct. I really ain't in it for the tiny groups either. Getting old and shaky makes it tough to get the tiny 10 shots in one hole anymore for me. Those days are long gone. Lol

 

[JWFilips]

You need to do a "Pound Cast" of the throat! I'm sure someone here has written documentation which is easier then me explaining the whole procedure.
Hey Guys, anyone out there with a written copy of pound casting to send John?

 

[johnnyjr]

Thanks, I'll get it. I think the local shop has some of that casting stuff if that's what your referring to.

 

[Snakeoil]

No, he's talking about using a pure lead slug and a case filled with something like a brass or steel rod. You put the slug in and then with a rod, pound the soft lead slug to take the shape of the chamber/throat/lead. You can do the same thing with a chamber cast using Cerrosafe.

If you are not interested in shooting the smallest group possible with the rifle, why did you ask the question?

 

[johnnyjr]

Ok,I see what you mean now. Maybe I'll try it in the morning. Well,I like the small groups as well as the next guy. But I'm more interested in longer than 50 yards shooting. Thanks

 

[JonB]

Here some more details about the pound cast procedure.

Pound Cast instructions (for rifle chamber)

Good job, Tim. I think that gets the idea across pretty well. One thing I do differently, though I doubt it really matters that much, is use WW alloy to fill the case rather than pure. Sometimes the shoulder telescopes a bit during the pounding, and WW alloy helps support it a bit more...

castboolits.gunloads.com

 

[Snakeoil]

Ok,I see what you mean now. Maybe I'll try it in the morning. Well,I like the small groups as well as the next guy. But I'm more interested in longer than 50 yards shooting. Thanks

MOA is MOA. If you want to hit with consistency at any distance, it is all about shooting the best group size possible with a given firearm/load.

Not sure why you equate small groups with distances of 50 yds or less. I do my load testing at 100 yds on paper so I know I can put my shots on-target at 500 yds where 1 MOA is 5 inches.

 

[JonB]

How do you determine if the bullets fit your throat ??. How do you check this. And why can't you use a bullet that matches the diameter of a jacketed bullet ??. Seem to me if you powder coat a bullet and size it to jacket diameter it would or should work at least for low node. Thanks

I quoting Johnny's OP just for reference.
.
Rob's last post/question got me to realizing that we might have two or three different conversations going on here.
A. Revolver dimensions and cast bullet sizing.
B. Rifle cast bullet sizing and the barrel's groove diameter.
and lastly, and much more complicated
C. Rifle: the cast bullet's nose size/profile and it's fit in the throat.
.
I'm not sure what Johnny wants to know, but I think we have him covered

 

[Ian]

Also here:

Article 2: How I Make Pound Casts

Disclaimer: The following information is the product of my own meandering experience and includes a few original ideas and concepts of my own and some that others have been kind to share with me, and is always subject to change as I learn more. It is in no way intended to be the last word, or...

www.artfulbullet.com

 

[462]

Not sure why you equate small groups with distances of 50 yds or less. I do my load testing at 100 yds on paper so I know I can put my shots on-target at 500 yds where 1 MOA is 5 inches.

Rob,
Can't speak for others who shoot rifles from 50-yards -- here is why I do.
Other that two scoped rifles -- a Ruger 10/22 and a .223 Ruger American -- all my other rifles have iron sights. My Quigley-like vision is a thing of the past and what is left is no longer compatible with iron sights and targets
100-yards distant. Sure, I will shoot those rifles from 100-yards, but the thrill of MOA or sub-MOA groups is but a memory.

The box-stock Ruger American is capable of jacketed 100-yard sub-MOA and I've posted some of those targets. The local range only goes out to 200-yards and giving it a go is somewhere on my to-do list.

So far, I've only shot the 10/22 from 50-yards, but its recent Magpul re-stock, that free floated the barrel, will have me giving 100-yards a try.

 

[Snakeoil]

I understand that old eyes set limits that we have no control over. I'm 71 and can still shoot with irons out to 500 yds. But I much prefer to use a vintage scope because that always gets the most out of the rifle. I do have a floater in my left eye that likes to mess with me. But I've learned to work with it.

What I could not understand is why the OP equated small groups with shooting at 50 yds or less.

Everyone is different and different things make them happy. I'm not a benchrest type and am happy to admit that I don't have the patience to load and shoot for benchrest. Last year when I ventured into F-class, if it were not for my shooting partner letting me use is Auto-trickler, I would have never gotten past the first match. Weighing each charge for 150 rounds ain't for me. That said, I do enjoy being in search of that magic load that works with a rifle to put cast bullets within 1 MOA or less. I realize that pretty much any decent bolt action out of the box with factory jacketed ammo can do that. But that means anyone can do it. Getting a 100+ year old rifle to do it with cast bullets and reduced loads is the challenge that puts the grin on my ugly old face when it all comes together. Yesterday was one of those days with my High Wall.

If I could only shoot at 50 or 100 yds, I'm not sure I'd still be shooting. Shooting paper targets is okay. But I like reactive targets like silhouettes for some reason. When I shot pistols, I hated bullseye, but shot it because it makes you better. But the fun was shooting pins and plates or ISPC type events where there was more to do than aim and shoot.

Our .22 matches start at 50 yds and run out to 200 with 2 300 yd offhand shots at the end. So, we size our targets so that they need some modicum of accuracy to be hit. Our .22 targets are sized at 3 MOA for scoped rifles. That's huge on a protected range. But hitting a 3 MOA target at 200 yds on a windy day with a .22 SVLR round can be challenging. And that's what makes it fun... at least for me and the rest of the geezers at Wilton. I'm one of the young guys, by the way.

 

[johnnyjr]

Yep, your younger than me,I only have one good eye,so it's a scope for me and my Shakey hands.. but I'm having a fun time..

 

[fiver]

well 50yds at an aspirin is just as challenging as 500yds. at an 8" dinger.
the good Mr. Squib didn't do all that work just so the guy's could shoot all that leftover spanish war ammo.

 

[Bret4207]

I take the path with the most fun, for my .30 cal . rifle I have four sizing dies .310 thru .313, the fun part comes when I load 5-10 rounds of each size with the same cases powder, primers etc shoot them and see what works best ONE WILL . No pounding, casting or measuring needed Mr.Target tells it all.

Jeeze! Why did I never think of that?!!!!!! Genius!!!!

 

[Bret4207]

Everything but the "how".

We had a pretty good thread started on defining fit in a rifle throat, what it means and what it looks like when it's good, bad, and ugly, but the person who was the impetus behind it faded away.

I, frankly, am too flabby in that part of the brain anymore to attempt tue description and too happy with the results I get with powder coated bullets to be inspired to delve into the topic of dynamic fit again in earnest. Lots of illustrations would be needed and in the end, only a handful of people in the world would get it, do it, and achieve the results proper dynamic fit can give you. This is further complicated by there being more than one philosophy of what constitutes correct bullet fit in a rifle throat, much depending on the person, their tooling limitations, and are their ultimate goals. Those who already get it learned the hard way, over a lifetime of dedicated experimentation, and don't need my two cents on the subject anyway.

Don't sell yourself short bud. Between you, Fiver and Felix that lightbulb has appeared over my head multiple times. True, sometimes it didn't light up until the 17th time someone explained something to me, but eventually the idea came across.

But yeah, you can explain something till you're blue in the face and some folks just can't/won't get it.

 

[Bret4207]

MOA is MOA. If you want to hit with consistency at any distance, it is all about shooting the best group size possible with a given firearm/load.

Not sure why you equate small groups with distances of 50 yds or less. I do my load testing at 100 yds on paper so I know I can put my shots on-target at 500 yds where 1 MOA is 5 inches.

Not all 50 yard groups hold together at longer ranges.

 

[Dusty Bannister]

It is also possible that some choose the short range due to mobility issues. With lung issues, the recovery time from that 100 yard walk may take longer for those with COPD as an example. Most that shoot those close targets with light loads also realize that as the bullet slows down before it reaches the 100 yard target, reduced velocity will no longer stablize the bullet in many instances. Just keep the speed up.

 

[johnnyjr]

It is also possible that some choose the short range due to mobility issues. With lung issues, the recovery time from that 100 yard walk may take longer for those with COPD as an example. Most that shoot those close targets with light loads also realize that as the bullet slows down before it reaches the 100 yard target, reduced velocity will no longer stablize the bullet in many instances. Just keep the speed up.

I know all about that issue. I didn't mean for my comment to be a slam for anyone. I apologize if it sounded like that..

 

[Dusty Bannister]

Not taken as a negative comment at all. Just many of us have never met the others and may be unaware of limitations. The intent was to comment on the fact that bullets behave differently at low velocity and longer distances. That could be a problem that some may not recognize while common knowledge to others.

 

[Snakeoil]

Wow, this got blown out of proportion. All I asked is why Johnny thought small groups meant 50 yds or less? To me it implied that you could not shoot small groups beyond 50 yds. I thought he might be under a misconception.

Not all 50 yard groups hold together at longer ranges.

Good point, Brett. Even when I shoot for the best group at 100 yds in working up a load, I'm never sure that it will hold up at longer distances. What we have found is that beyond 300 yds is where things rapidly degrade for certain bullets/loads. Back when I was playing with .38-55 a couple bullets I tried did well until I got to 300 and then they fell apart.