Cast Bullets In The M1 Garand

[quicksylver]

Hi again guys..Dan here

Ever see that heading in a thread..

Sorry but I got a story with no picture..(grown up type)..

So I thought it would be fun (wrong)..to take on the M1 shooting cast...well it was actually fun
but not reveling..well maybe reveling...

The gun I have is a stock HRA..all HRA...all original...manufactured 05-54

Haven't checked the TE or ME...did clean out the copper...

My first choice of bullets were the 284 and 299..my first choice of powders were H4895 and AA4064...

After prepping 50 rnds of brass..30 HXP and 20 rnds Winchester.. I set about trying to determine what bullet diameter this gun likes...no luck there.. no concernable difference between .310 and .311..h-u-u-m-m...just as a note those loads were some 314299's with 29grs h4895 and seated to 3.270..the 314299 has a .304 nose when cast with my 4-4-92 alloy...the rounds for the test were single loaded...

Not getting any clear preference on the bullet diameter I decided to move on to testing the functioning of the rifle with that loading...THERE was the surprise...all rounds functioned fine out of a five round clip...from what I've read most M1's require a bit stiffer load...but hey I'm happy 'cause that's where this bullet likes to shoot out of my other '06's..

Anyways last week we had a pretty good day for iron sight shooting so I took a few rounds (loaded with the 314299 ) with me to the range..nice bright day ..yes I could see the tree inch "shoot N see " target..

How did I do..or rather how did IT do..these were shot using the en bloc..check out the pictures..( ya I know I said I didn't have pictures)..

Encouraged by that results I headed out again today ,armed with the M1 Garand and loads using 29.3 grs H4895 with All my 299's..the Lyman 311299 ( 314 bands-.301 nose), NOE312299 ( 312 bands-.302 nose) and a NOE 314299( 314 bands-.304nose).. I had equal numbers of bullets loaded that were sized .310 and .311....

The light was marginal but I managed to hold the target..(sort of)...of course this was at 100 yds...

OK here's the kicker...(so much for load development)...ALL GROUPS WERE 1 5/8"...NONE SMALLER.. NONE BIGGER...AND ALL SHOT TO THE SAME POI.. ?..

Before I leave I will tell you that this rifle shot the 311284 sized .310 and pushed with 30 grs AA4064 into 1 1/8"..with 4 under 3/4"....

Not great shooting..but fun..

Question.. have you guys had a gun that didn't respond to tweaking of bullet sizes and nose diameters?

Well... off to sizing the cases and reloading some more..think I'll wait for a day that I can see the target before I try this again...

Thanks for listening..Dan

 

[Ian]

Question.. have you guys had a gun that didn't respond to tweaking of bullet sizes and nose diameters?

In a certain zone of alloy and powder some rifles will simply make the bullets the shape they like when you shoot them and don't really care what shape you cast them. Looks like you got the pressure curve and alloy matched perfectly. If you don't get the alloy/powder balance and jump distance sorted out perfectly, it can be tough to get a rifle to shoot at all.

 

[quicksylver]

Ian ..I couldn't agree more....still strange though that it doen't show a tiny preference..ny other guns do. ..as for the jump..they are seat such that the rifling will take off the coating from a black magic marker. .maybe a little too tight for an m1 garand..

 

[RBHarter]

I have a pair of Savages a little bit like that the 308 is very flexible about 140-165 jacketed and shoots them into no more that 2" from Herters to Argentine 80s surplus .
Cast is all over until you get the window open then you have all sorts of space to play in and the groups don't change . It is fussy about checks it has to have them it just won't shoot plan base .

The 06' will go from 5 touching to 8" in a grain of 4350 . It knows a 1.5 gr difference case to case and will put those in another group .
Keep jacketed 150s under 2700 and anything cast under 1800 and it is very cooperative as long as it has every charge scaled and cases weigh lotted to 1gr high to low .

 

[Ian]

Getting a Garand to shoot anything under a 2" group without a lot of fuss is pretty good any way you look at it. A lot of things have to be in balance for that to happen and it both function and group. I'm a little surprised at how "easy" this particular rifle is to please, but realistically, if the same alloy was used for all bullets and the powder pressure curves weren't all that far away from each other with the two powders and various charge weights, the difference between the rifle's least and most preferred loads might be less than the sighting tolerances.

 

[fiver]

it would be pretty cool to catch a picture of the different boolits at the muzzle.
I keep seeing them all coming out in a similar [<=] shape.

 

[Ian]

I'd love to convince Destin of "smarter every day" that determining before/after BC by filming bullets emerging from the muzzle at several hundred thousand frames per second would be a worthy endeavor. It would also tell us a lot about how bullet lube behaves in the muzzle pressure bubble.

 

[waco]

I'd love to convince Destin of "smarter every day" that determining before/after BC by filming bullets emerging from the muzzle at several hundred thousand frames per second would be a worthy endeavor. It would also tell us a lot about how bullet lube behaves in the muzzle pressure bubble.

This would be VERY interesting to see.....

 

[fiver]

I seen a 22lr popped out in slow motion as in stop framed slow motion.
I couldn't see the heel anymore and the nose was completely rounded off.
they were shooting some glass teardrops [duke or earl somebody's theory about the drops being unbreakable]
and they didn't break when shot.
most of them sent a vibration down to the tip and the vibration shattered the glass from the tip back to the tear drop shaped nose.

 

[Ian]

That was an oustanding vid, the pics of the bullets leaving the barrel is what got me thinking he would be the guy to do other bullet stuff. Did you notice the wobble for the first few inches? And now we know what happens to the heel of a .22 rimfire after firing.

 

[freebullet]

Those results are a great lucky start for an autoloader. Sometimes takes a buncho work to get to that point when you add open sights it becomes even more impressive & lucky.

An interesting test would be- see if seating depth changes have effect or minor crimp changes the results.

I'd love to see pix of the rifle, should you get bored.
Thanks for sharing!

 

[fiver]

I remember the wobble it was the base spinning around the nose was trying to stay stable.

 

[quicksylver]

Those results are a great lucky start for an autoloader. Sometimes takes a buncho work to get to that point when you add open sights it becomes even more impressive & lucky.

An interesting test would be- see if seating depth changes have effect or minor crimp changes the results.

I'd love to see pix of the rifle, should you get bored.
Thanks for sharing!

I'see what I can do ...I have to b use photo bucket as imgur has not worked for some time...

Strange thing about it it is only about 16 guns above a known collectors grade...with known parts ....

 

[quicksylver]

I just primed 10 cases with CCI primers instead of the WLR that I have been using..
I am going to try seating them further out as well ...one change at a time if course...