Chasing my tail

[JSH]

Chasing a mill on an online auction. Bad thing is there is an Enco 1236 lathe there also. I know the fellow selling the stuff all of it has seen little use, but has been cared for very well.
The mill has seen more attention than the lathe as far as bids. The sucker I am, I may well end up with the lathe.
The Sheldon I got from Bill is working fine for my needs and wants. These small home shop lathes and mills are few and far between in this part of the country, let alone finding one that has not been abused or neglected.

As always when you buy somthing others come up, no matter what it is. I feel like I pretty well know what these will bring around here. Sometimes they are a bit pricey compared to other parts of the country, still a good deal compared to a new one.
Got a bid on the bench top mill and am going to stay at that bid, a little less than 2/3 the price of a new one just because of the little bit of tooling and knowing the history of the machine.
May need assistance of weak minds and strong backs.
Jeff

 

[JSH]

Well, on the bright side I don't have to worry about hurting my back moving any iron. I bid further than I planned. It was a way from a new equivalent model. I can spend a little more on a new outfit with the plus of more support in and parts that maybe needed. Also a couple hundred more and get power feed.

 

[Brad]

Finding decent, used machinery in some areas isn’t easy. My biggest issue was that I wanted a machine I could set up and use right away. I didn’t want a project. I also don’t know what to look for as signs of trouble or abuse.

Keep on looking, eventually something will land in your house,

 

[Ian]

Texas is one area almost devoid of used machine tools. Not much industry here, or retired machinists to bring the tools to the area.

 

[Pistolero]

Glad you like the Sheldon, that old lathe taught me a whole lot and made some
really good parts. Fond memories of that one.

Bill

 

[Intheshop]

20? or so years ago...... can't remember the guys handle but it was when the *PMS forum first started. He was a motorcycle guy so we used to compare notes and rides N such. Long story short..... he'd ride his bike to go check out equipment. Go pretty far. Then "if", the pce checked out..... go rent a uhaul. Ride bike up into back,load said pce of iron..... toodle on back home.

Sort of the moral? You need to assess your travel situation and schedule. These,I've found,seem to be guy's biggest obstacles.

*PMS ,Practical machinist site..... was a decent forum back when it started.A handful of pricks ruined it for everyone but..... it is still a resource. I use their classified.

 

[Bret4207]

I used to spend a lot of time on PMS. Last time I was there it was a lot different than the early days. But that goes for a whole lotta boards where $$$ got to be the driving factor. Never occurred to me that anyone could make any money running a website forum or posting You Tube videos, but there are folks making millions out there. Who knew?!!

I've been watching for used machinery for years up here. The stuff I find tends to either be ungodly expensive (an often not worth 10% of the asking price) or something that is so worn out or old that the Amish won't even try it. I have no proof, but judging by the numbers of items I see compared to what I used to see, I think the last scrap metal peak took an awful lot of old iron overseas. I know for a fact it hit the ag equipment sector really hard.

 

[KeithB]

A lot of the stuff that home shop folks look for and cherish is basically aging out and in many cases is worn out. I figure you can:

(a). Hope to find a nice piece of lightly worn equipment at a great price (good luck there! It does sometimes happen, how long do you want to look and not do?)
(b). Buy an old clapped out Bridgeport, Sheldon, Atlas, etc. and spend your time overhauling it instead of using it. (Is this why you bought a lathe, mill, etc in the first place?)
(c). Shop carefully, read a few reviews, and buy something new or fairly new, imported or domestic. For most folks this seems to me to be the best route if you want to make parts and not buy a project. (This is the route that Ian and Brad have taken - and look what they are doing with their machines!)

I know folks that like to rebuild cars - and there is nothing wrong with that. But most folks want a car to go somewhere or move something, not be a constant dollar draining patience sapping rattletrap project.

Spend what you can afford, get the best you can, cry once but be happy for a long time as you learn to use whatever you buy to its capacity.

 

[Ian]

The people I know who collect and restore old shop tools of any kind typically already have what they need in operation and are just tinkering around with stuff that will eventually replace a unit already in service. I worked for a guy who had a large Craftsman table saw as the primary cabinet shop saw and spent a few years off and on restoring to mint (including pro paint job and re-grinding the deck) an enormous Rockwell three-phase jobbie. When he got it done, he ended up selling it to a collector and and replaced the Craftsman with a top-of-the-line SawStop. The SawStop was ten times the machine the Rockwell ever was, could barely even hear it running.

I couldn't afford a decent sized lathe, so I shopped the new benchtop units until I found one that I could both afford and had the most features aimed at what I planned to do with it. There were three options in my price range and all had different setups/features. I ended up trading quick-change gears, a few inches of bed length, and threaded spindle for the lathe with more thread pitch options, a much beefier tailstock with longer quill travel and quick-release lock, more compound travel, smaller bolt-on chuck with options to upgrade and ability to thread in reverse, an infinite speed control, and an inch more steady-rest capacity.

 

[KeithB]

You shopped carefully, did your due diligence, and got something that works well for you. Look at what you have learned and produced! Would waiting months or years to find a cherry piece of old iron been a better solution? I doubt it.

One of my friends bought a used CNC lathe of a brand I never heard of. It's great when it runs. But its always down, usually due to aging electronics, and finding components/boards to keep it running is a hassle. He brags to me about the low price he got on it - while he is subbing CNC lathe work to me. At this pace in another year he will have bought my Haas lathe for me. I try not to notice the irony as he picks up his work and drops off my checks...

 

[Ian]

Many people have the habit of stepping over dollar bills to pick up pennies. I don't understand it, especially when those people are trying to run a business.

 

[Intheshop]

Buy a clapped out BP..... use it. Learn where it's toast..... send it to welding dept. Those boys might surprise you with what some folks call junk. Shoot,let's go to the pro shop welding joint...." I've got 10k burning a hole in my pocket,and yes we already have machining capabilities".... "What do you have in high end Tig machines"?

Money is funny..... true story; I went into a corporate out of town,wood supply joint one time( name isn't important) and told the very nice salesman guy.... "I need to spend 200$,quick".And was not joking. Poor guy broke out in a sweat and took it all personal and?

I'd be like..... add a zero to that and we can go shop but here,have a nice arse rabbit plane.....

 

[Pistolero]

The Sheldon that I sold to Jeff was one of those lightly used older machines that are hard
to find. Never was in commercial machine shop service, bought new in the 50s in KC by a gunsmith,
one man shop, and my friend beat me by a day in buying it from his son. My friend (now has
a Hardinge!) used it with his South Bend Heavy 10 for about 12 years, and then sold it to me when
he got the Hardinge. So, I know the machine's whole history from new and it was never in heavy
production work, and always run only by the owner, who took care of it, not like an employee being
pushed to make deadlines. Not lots of those kind of machines out there.

The same friend has a essentially mint '69 Bridgeport, bought as a backup for a two man machine
shop, never powered up, and bought in about '98 still in original plastic wrap. Again, a unicorn. He
added power cross feed and DRO. What a nice machine, although the quill is still a bit stiff, too
new!

They are out there, but not a lot of them. Which is why my Grizzly G4003G was chosen when I
decided to finally upgrade a bit from the Sheldon, which has a 54" bed!

Not all that strong, Jeff, but I have that mini crane and a PU if that will help.

Bill

 

[Intheshop]

Hardinge,smardinge... 8A Wade makes certain things so much easier.

It is so nasty weather here... shopdog is like, forget about....

 

[Pistolero]

IME, threading on a Hardinge is far easier than any other lathe. And the accuracy
and rigidity of the dovetail bed has to be used to be appreciated. I have no idea
what an 8A Wade is, but if it is anywhere near a Hardinge, it must be a fine machine.

 

[fiver]

like was said earlier you gotta look at what the machine is good at and make your choice.

I just got the motor done in the Bronco, the wife wanted me to trade her Tahoe in and use that money to get her an upgrade.
well we could get another street type vehicle.
orrr,,,,,, we could use the 3 we have now.
fix up one of the last true heavy weight off road vehicles out there and try to beat it to death on dirt roads over the next 20 years.
I'm not gonna take the bronco 1600 miles on the highway,or on vacation, and I ain't gonna take the Mustang deer hunting.
but they are both pretty damn good at what they do,, do.

 

[Brad]

I recall well some online discussions with both Buckshot and Keith before I got my lathe. Both stressed that while old American iron is nice it is just that, old. If I wanted a project then go for it, if I wanted a lathe I could get home, clean up, and get to work then a new import was the way to go.
I don’t buy used cars for the same reason. I am a driver, not a mechanic.

No nostalgia here for me. I just want something that works.

 

[KeithB]

Dreams are nice to have. I dream of finding an original Peacemaker in unfired condition for $300. I dream of finding an unfired Krag or Springfield or M12 Winchester at a giveaway price. I dream of finding a lightly used Bridgeport for $1000.

What's the chances of that happening for any of us? About zero. If it does, fine. But at a certain point I know how the buzzard feels when he says "patience my ass, I'm gonna kill something".

 

[JSH]

I have zero complaints with the Sheldon. All of the input from various friends and such, all said to go as big as I could. The Sheldon is roughly twice as big of a machine as I had planned on. Any bigger and some the small projects I have done, it would have been to big really. (Right tool for the job) I have not ruled out a small lathe, I know where a small Atlas is, weighs maybe 50lbs, he doesn't use it any, yet will not sell it.

Looking at the LMS 5500 and a couple of different mills from precision matthews. Still reading on all of them and reviews. My major focus at the moment is on building some front and rear sights for wheel guns. Not saying I can build a BOMAR, but it darn sure couldn't be any worse than some of the junk out there.
So I think any of the three will be plenty ridged for task such as that.

 

[freebullet]

mills from precision matthews.

The one Brad got impressed me. Build quality is snug & robust.