Crimp as a final step.

[RicinYakima]

Rick and Ian,

Rick, I see that you shoot long range so the numbers mean a lot to you so you can calculate bullet drop variations. Excellent data, can I use it?
Ian, That is why I crimp 32/20 loads that can go into the Contender, the S&W Target or the Browning 52. The 1892 clone just will not feed without a smooth case mouth unless you are racking it like the end of the world. The amount on the 45 AR in the picture above is enough to let it feed slow motion (all us old guys can do).

 

[fiver]

I do it just a little different.
since the vast majority of my revolver cartridges are going to go through a lever gun and maybe through a revolver.
I seat about 90% of the way in the first step then roatate the round to the next station and seat that last 10ish% and put the crimp in at the same time.
by crimp I mean turn the case mouth in just enough so that when I run my thumb down the case it just slides
over smoothly.
this mostly just hides the case mouth behind the RNFP's roll angled side.

in other cases I use the crimp to pull the loaded round back out of the chamber with the boolit still in the case.
this is more my 30-30/32 win type hunting loads where the nose engraves the rifling and lines everything up.

for other instances like when I use the H&G type boolits in a 45 colt I seat all the way to the front of the drive band then taper crimp with my 45 win mag die.

 

[freebullet]

So if no crimp what case neck tension is used? How are you measuring that? Curious if we have a consensus or range applied?

in other cases I use the crimp to pull the loaded round back out of the chamber with the boolit still in the case.
this is more my 30-30/32 win type hunting loads where the nose engraves the rifling and lines everything up.

3030
Yep yep.

In stuff like 9mm I just close the bell as far as necessary.

My full house 454 loads do get crimped some. They will come out & lock up the gun with no crimp when full power ammo is used. Plinkers and even moderate power loads don't need it most times.

 

[Ian]

.002" interference fit does it for most things. Some, like the .357 Magnum need more like .004", which is about as much tension as a .012" -thick, half-annealed brass hoop can hold

 

[Rick]

More like .0015"-.002" on my 357. Would depend on you particular lot of brass and your expander plug. Also depends on how many times the brass has been fired and how work hardened it is. I did not compete with old brass but all brass in a particular box were fired the exact same number of times. Note in the crimp tests I posted that some of the brass is virgin unfired and NOT expanded or crimped. None of the brass used in that test were fired more than twice including for that test. Consistency of neck tension is the key. Bullet weight is your friend in such long range high end loads.

Ric, I calculated bullet drop with the rear sight, distances are known, 50 100 150 and 200 meters. Starting at 50 elevation is a known number of clicks up from bottom with a given load, moving out to 100 is a known number of clicks up and so on. Sure you can use the info I posted.
.

 

[Winelover]

Mostly, crimp as separate operation. If the bullet has a crimp groove/cannulure, it gets enough of a roll crimp to just fold the edge of case into it. Taper crimp, if no apparent crimp groove is present. Especially rounds used in semi-autos.

 

[Intheshop]

Rifles;on accuracy rigs,the last step is run out check.Which confirms or implicates the crimping method.

Rifles;where crimp falls in certain circumstances,allows a seat/crimp.....and ammo is just for offhand practice.

Revolvers;test crimp through chrono,backed up with groups.Under no circumstances can a bullet get pushed into case deeper....was pressed in me early in reloading 40 or so years ago....from the standpoint of raising pressures.So rarely,don't crimp.But then I don't shoot mild target only.Mid range ammo is about where handgun loading starts.

 

[KHornet]

Lipstick, kind of like the analogy!
Paul

 

[smokeywolf]

If it's getting fed into and out of a tubular magazine it gets a roll crimp sufficient to bury at least 80% of the edge of the mouth of the brass below bullet's OD.; usually done during seating. If I'm reloading rounds to be used for hunting, I have in the past, crimped separately. Like Ian and others I crimp just enough to guarantee no bullet set back in the magazine and smooth chambering. Cartridges for bolt guns don't get crimped. I own no magnum pistols or rifles. 45 ACP gets it's taper crimp as a separate and final operation.

As I'm a newbie to reloading for the Garand, may I ask if anyone crimps their Garand cartridges? Crimp cast, but not jacketed? Crimp both or neither?
Dad's ledger shows info for the model '95 Winchester and '03 Springfield, but not the Garand.

 

[Winelover]

Garand is a magazine fed semi-auto, so I would taper crimp cast, as I do for my AR-10. Make some dummy rounds and check for feeding and bullet set back, before and afterwards. Crimp only enough so bullet don't move deeper into case.

 

[Ian]

I only have experience with cast in the M1A platform. If your bullets are firm enough to handle a full .003" interference fit, and your brass necks are nice and hard, you probably won't have to do anything beyond straighten out the bellmouth. Still, once in a while the nose will catch that feed ramp hard and want to turtle the bullet. The good news is if not to much powder leaks around the bullet when it does, it will re-seat in the throat when it slams into battery . Either a firm taper crimp or Lee collet FCD swaged crimp into a driving surface done as a separate operation, or a 100% flush roll crimp in a crimp groove (up against the rear edge of the band in front of the groove) done either when seating or after will ensure no boo-boos. Also, you may find with cast bullets and some of the lighter charge/slower powder combinations you get better consistency when adding some crimp.

 

[Winelover]

So, Ian.....that would be a yes?

 

[Ian]

He asked three separate, valid questions. I didn't think "yes" or "no" would be a complete or helpful answer, especially considering the might, mass, and violence of the self-loading system found on an M1 Rifle. When someone unfamiliar with this actually sets out to do it, these little questions like is my FL die making necks the right size for cast or how to I deal with an OAL the rifle likes but the case mouth doesn't line up with something I can crimp it into sort of thing might come up. Maybe I saved him a few minutes by a few seconds of reading.

 

[fiver]

not the Garand but the M-14.
I crimp it just like I would for a lever gun even with jacketed.
I turn that champhered case mouth over into the canellure.

I have been able to use .002 neck tension and feed a non crimp groove style boolit in the rifle BUT...
I just know it's a matter of time, and I will give up a little accuracy for security.

 

[Ian]

BUT...
I just know it's a matter of time, and I will give up a little accuracy for security.

Had it happen, but thank goodness the cast bullet was at max magazine length and had enough leverage to bend the case mouth enough as it turtled that the round didn't go fully into battery.

 

[bert2368]

Crimp (or more usually, ironing out the bell at case mouth) I have allways done separate from seating. Just about all my rifle bullets get seated with a Vickerman die or the equivalent die from other makers.

Deepest crimp I do is on revolver .44 mag heavy loads such as Mihec 44/444 310gr, factory taper crimp on .45acp. Very light crimp on 180 to 240gr WC or SWC .44 plinkers.

30-06 for Garand, a bit more crimp than I use on bolt guns with cast loads to TRY to make them stay where I seated them.

 

[smokeywolf]

Thank you gentlemen for your input.

 

[CASTER OF LEAD]

I crimp only my full house .357 rounds cast or jackets , and when I do it is a separate operation. My .45 ACP need just the bell tapered so it will go into full battery. All other pistol,or rifle rounds I shoot I rely on neck tension . It's been reliable for me for 20 + Years.

 

[Cherokee]

I always crimp separately. I like the Redding profile crimp for 38/357 and 32/20 loads, revolver or lever action use. Taper crimp for 9 and 45 autos. Big bore gets a roll crimp.

 

[Pistolero]

With Keith type revolver bullets, I seat and crimp simultaneously, the nicely tapered crimp groove works perfectly
with this design. I have a Redding profile crimp for .357 and .44 Mag, can tell exactly zero difference in the
final product with Keith bullets, so they are rarely used. Also seat and slight crimp at same time with H&G 50s
with nice tapered crimp groove, but this is a slight crimp.

For all else, semiauto pistols and rifles, I use a separate crimp die. Short TC in semiauto pistols with
no crimp groove and Lee factory crimp collet type crimp only (NOT factory crimp with carbide sizing ring)
die for rifles that need a crimp, like Garand, AR15s and all leverguns. Roll crimp was a disaster
on .38-55, caused bulging below crimp and failure to chamber which was mistaken for too
large a bullet at first. No crimp for bolt guns, or single shots like RBs, normally.

Bill