Deck Screws

[Petrol & Powder]

Yeah, I know, not reloading/casting/shooting related; but I'm looking for some advice and there are some skilled folks on this forum.

I need to replace the boards on a deck and there are now roughly 9000 different types of deck screws to choose from. Stainless steel, epoxy coated, ceramic, polymer, square drive, Torx drive, Phillips drive,...there are probably depleted uranium deck screws with kryptonite plating – I gave up looking after the first few dozen types.

The deck is not huge, so I’m willing to spend a little extra on hardware to get something I won’t have to replace. I can’t afford Trex, so it will be regular 5/4 treated lumber decking boards. The joists are on 16” centers, so plenty of strength there.

I want a good deck screw that will hold up over time but I don’t need platinum coated screws made from the ore of meteorites !

Any input would be appreciated.

 

[KeithB]

I buy square drive heads. Phillips suck. Haven't used any in a while and never tried Torx but I'd go with them if square wasn't available. I'd probably go with SS or epoxy or plastic coated. I thought the plastic coated ones drove a little easier than plain ones.

No pro at all here, just sharing my very limited experience.

 

[Jeff H]

I do have significant experience in this, albeit somewhat dated, but...

If I have to do this again, I'm going to look at stainless.

ANY coated screw is going to rust, and it won't take all that long to do it. The last ones I've used are the ceramic-coated wonders, which were OK for a couple years, but, yeah, they still rust. Stainless rusts too, but I think it would still have an edge over coated.

Screws back out over time, here and there, and trying to drive them back in after they've rusted almost invariably breaks them.

TORX, all the way. I put the bit in a drywall screw-gun, get the depthe set and go to town. Works a wonder.

Danged screws are getting terribly expensive though! I used up 30 years worth of surplus of fasteners and then had to go BUY some. Holy COW!

 

[StrawHat]

Other option is the “invisible” fasteners that work from joist to board. Several variations of those also. No holes in the public side of the deck boards. No splinters, puddling of water, and a few other benefits.

Kevin

 

[Petrol & Powder]

Other option is the “invisible” fasteners that work from joist to board. Several variations of those also. No holes in the public side of the deck boards. No splinters, puddling of water, and a few other benefits.

Kevin

I'm not that fancy and I'd like the option of replacing a single board if I later need to.

 

[Hawk]

Definitely torx!
I like Deckmate brand. Coated screw

 

[Charles Graff]

I built all my reloading benches etc, with coated torx headed deck screws of the correct length. Nothing has shook loose. I always drill a pilot hole.

 

[Jeff H]

I built all my reloading benches etc, with coated torx headed deck screws of the correct length. Nothing has shook loose. I always drill a pilot hole.

Ive used as many "deck screws" for as many (maybe more) things as I have deck boards.

Like having a #10 can full of each 16s and 8s (nails), one should have at minimum, 5# of 3" deck screws on hand.

Which reminds me.....

 

[RicinYakima]

While I live in the desert, two levels of my fir planked decks are exposed to snow and I have had to replace boards. None on the covered level. Originally CC sinker nails were used and have lasted 41 years so far. Replacement boards have epoxy coated square drive deck screw. If you live where it is rainy, I would strongly consider torx drive stainless screws as you will be replacing most everything within 20 years.

 

[KeithB]

Is that the SAE or metric pile?

 

[Petrol & Powder]

Is that the SAE or metric pile?

Yes

 

[Petrol & Powder]

The deck gets baked in the sun durung the summer. In the winter, it never sees direct sunlight. When it gets wet between October and April, it stays wet.
So the worst possible conditions.

 

[Snakeoil]

I have a bit of personal experience regarding wood decking and deck screws. Wood here is the key parameter that brings with it some additional considerations.

First, the screws made today are all made in China. If you can find one made in the USA, I'd suggest that you pay the money and buy those.

The hardware store, Lowes, etc, brands all bloviate over how good they are and several are warranted for life. The warranty gets you a free screw or two. So, forget the warranty unless you are retired like me and enjoy torturing companies that never expect you to make a lengthy and details stink.

The problem with 99% of the screws is they are TOO HARD. The reason this is problem is they have terrible tensile strength. This is where the wood factor comes in. The wood will expand and contract with moisture, long periods of rain being the worst. The power that a piece of wood has when it expands is truly significant. So, you tighten down your screws on your new, dry wood and then it stays outside for a year. It bakes in the sun, weathers (stain or no stain) and then expands like crazy during a long period of rain. There is enough force to snap the screws. I actually think it is a function of both the board getting longer and thicker. Once bends and the other stretches.

I have a dock that is 140 feet long. I built it in 1992. About 5 years ago, I decided to flip all the decking over to exposed the other side since the current side that was up was pretty weatherd. Some screws had rusted and broken over the years. At the time, zinc plated deck screws was all that was offered. The treated lumber also tends to eat metal so a few broken screws over 35 years plus of service is acceptable. So, I flip all the boards and buy the best screws I can (made in China as that is all I could find) and they are warranted for life. Granted, a dock gets a much more rigorous cycling of wet and dry compared to a deck on your house. But I view that as an accelerated factory test. And remember, my first set of screws lasted over 35 years for the most part. Well, before the summer was over, I had loose boards. I checked and the screws had snapped. There are 1200 screws in that dock. So needless to say, I was not happy. I replaced the broken screws and bitched at the hardware store and all I got was a blank stare in return. I sent several emails to the company and never got a reply.

So, not sure if the current chemicals in treated deck eat metal. But chances are they do. If I had to do a wood deck today, I would use the biggest, and by that, I mean diameter screw that would look good on the deck. If you go with long skinny screws on a wood deck in an area that sees 4 seasons and periods of hot sun and rain, the skinny screws will start to fail and will continue to fail.

I personally do not think this has anything to with the coating on the screw, since mine started to fail in the first year. But I might be wrong about that. The coating could crack if it is less ductile than the screw when the screw is tightened and stretched a bit. Once it cracks moisture and treating chemicals get into the crack and do their thing. This might be a stress corrosion cracking issue. Or it could just be that they are not up to the task of keeping wood decking that expands and contracts in place without eventually breaking.

Good luck.

 

[Petrol & Powder]

Snakeoil, Thank you for the insight.

I have ZERO use for warranties. I pay ABSOLUTELY NO attention to any warranty. I do not make purchase decisions based on warranty information.

When I’m looking to purchase some big-ticket item some 12-year-old salesman will inevitably make the mistake of attempting to close the deal by mentioning the “great” warranty. When that happens, I will pounce on that idiot salesman and ask if he will promise, in writing, that he will personally come to my house at 4:45pm on December 24, in a snowstorm and correct the failure covered under warranty? Most of the slightly brighter salesmen will shut up right there. A few of the exceptionally dumb ones will attempt to talk some more and dig the hole a little deeper. It never goes well for them.
Most warranties are not worth the paper they are printed on.

 

[Snakeoil]

You pay for lifetime warranties. If they did not offer the warranty, the price would be lower. There ain't no free lunch.

A number talked about the type of drive used. When I build my dock only Phillips heads were made. You need good bits and when they are worn, they will slip. But with a good bit, Phillips heads work. But I like the square and torx drives. They never slip unless again, you use a worn bit or you do not seat the bit into the socket.

I did use stainless screws when I put HDPE skid planks on my boat lift. They are screwed into the treated wood bunks and have been there for years. Of course they never see the sun, the HDPE does not expand with water and the bunks probably never dry out fully as they still have carpet on them.

 

[BBerguson]

The drive type really doesn’t matter for a deck, it only comes into play if you plan on installing and removing the screws multiple times. With that said, the only thing I’d ever use a phillip head screw on is drywall. For a long time the only head I would buy was square drive. They don’t cam out, can be driven over and over and the best part about them is they will lock onto the bit so you can drive screws one handed at any angle. I like torx too but they won’t lock onto a bit but I do think they are a little more durable than square drive.

Metal type or coating? Well, if I was a young man with a new house that I was going to live at for the next 40 years, it would be stainless steel all the way. You do have to be careful to get a hardened SS screw for deck type applications or you could end up breaking a lot of them. Pre drilling helps but it’s more work and unnecessary with “regular” or hardened SS deck screws. Yeah, I know from experience…

Coated screws are ok but I’d buy them from a reputable supplier, I’ve been a fan of Mcfeely’s for 30 years and would trust what they are selling to be quality. From what I’ve seen from my own woodworking and seeing the fasteners used on electric poles, galvanized is the best coating there is for treated wood construction. The only downside is they are silver and you can get the epoxy screws in about any color you want. I built a deck with galvanized square drive screws from Mcfeely’s 24 years ago and it’s still holding up fine.

The only long term experience I have with coated/epoxy screws were used in “Trex like” boards I built our back porch out of. The boards looked good for about 10 years and then they really went to hell. (they were crap and the company went out of business along with there lifetime warrantee) I dismantled it after about 15 years and rebuilt it out of decking lumber. The epoxy coated screws were in the same shape as the boards, with many of them stripping out on the drive (torx) and many snapped off while removing them.

I have no experience with hidden deck fasteners so I won’t comment on them.

When installing treated deck boards, leave no gaps between them. You’ll have plenty of gap after they shrink.

 

[Joshua]

Here is my opinion. Any “Redecking” is only a temporary fix. The rest of the wood is only going to hold up for at best another 15-25 years. So, you can splurge on stainless, but I wouldn’t.

Coated Torx drive deck screws would be my Choice.

Also, a word of caution. Any repairs done to the framing should be done with nails, and the proper hangers. Screws are brittle and don’t do very well with critical side loading. Many people have died from deck structures failing that were screwed together.

 

[Petrol & Powder]

"....they were crap and the company went out of business along with there lifetime warranty..." - YEP, another flaw in the great warranty scheme. When the company dies, the warranty dies with it.

"When installing treated deck boards, leave no gaps between them. You’ll have plenty of gap after they shrink." I learned that a long time ago.

 

[Petrol & Powder]

Here is my opinion. Any “Redecking” is only a temporary fix. The rest of the wood is only going to hold up for at best another 15-25 years. So, you can splurge on stainless, but I wouldn’t.

Coated Torx drive deck screws would be my Choice.

Also, a word of caution. Any repairs done to the framing should be done with nails, and the proper hangers. Screws are brittle and don’t do very well with critical side loading. Many people have died from deck structures failing that were screwed together.

The deck structure has held up well. The decking boards, not so much.

I didn't build this one but the ones I have built, I avoid placing fasteners into shearing configurations. Vertical columns get notched to hold joists and those joists are held in the notches with large carriage bolts. All the loads pass through the structural members, not the fasteners.

 

[BBerguson]

For all of you, if you want heavy duty bolts for deck structures or any heavy duty construction, (like a dock) visit your local electric cooperative. When they replace poles or anything on the pole, they don’t re-use the 5/8 inch galvanized bolts and many times don’t use the galvanized bolts (smaller stuff) that come with the devices. It goes in the scrap bin! Sometimes the 5/8 new bolts get thrown away! Price out a 5/8 x 8,10 or 12 inch bolt sometime and see how much you’ll save.