Federal Brass

[Petrol & Powder]

I ran into a hiccup the other day and I think the Federal casings may have been the problem. I had segregated about 100 Federal casings (38 Special) out of some random brass because I wanted to test a new load and didn’t want a lot of variables. The only reason I ended up using Federal brass was that the first handful of brass simply had more Federal cases than other brands. I wasn’t seeking a particular brand of brass, just all the same brass and it ended up being Federal.

The Federal brass was cycled through one loading, and just because it was handy, got cleaned and reloaded with an old standard load. That’s when the problems appeared. Sticky extraction and the cylinder was binding when rotating. The load was not even close to being hot. (3.5 grains of Bullseye with a SAECO #382 SWC). That loading has never given even the slightest bit of trouble and the gun was clean and in perfect order.

The cartridges chambered without difficulty, no issues with sizing or bullet seating. I switched to the same load in other casings (WW, RP, PMC, etc.) and there were no problems. The problem seemed to be confined to the Federal brass.

Is there a known problem with Federal casings? Or is this just a fluke?

 

[Wasalmonslayer]

I shoot almost all federal casings in my 38 spec and 357 loads and no issue here.

I have shot your exact same load in my 38 loads for a very long time! Well almost the same either an rcbs 38 150 or lee 358 158 TL.

 

[RicinYakima]

Most of my 38 special brass is Federal factory WC from the 1970's. Only issue I ever had was not seating the primers deep enough one time with the Lee 2nd model tool.

 

[Jeff H]

Guessing.

I've always shot nothing but mixed brass in my 38s, but it was all older mixed brass, nothing newer than early eighties and back. A lot of it was Federal, but I never noticed any difference between cases with them all mixed together like that.

I wonder if it's more about the vintage of the brass than the brand? Maybe old Federal cases differ form new ones?

I think the 38 Special got a lot more attention in the seventies than since and that most buyers had higher expectations of the 38 than other chamberings. Not accusing Federal of anything here, but I wonder if the care and attention to today's 38 Special brass/loads is anything like it used to be.

 

[Winelover]

Have a mixture of 38 Special brass, including Federal. No issues in three, so chambered revolvers. Have a lot of nickel S&W +P brass, when S&W offered factory ammunition. Some mixed military yellow brass and most of the commercial offerings. Probably, some wad cutter brass too. All gets treated the same way. Try to separate by headstamp but some 50 round boxes are filled with oddball brass, when needed to top them off. Try to avoid Hornady brass, since it's usually shorter than the other brands.

 

[smokeywolf]

Sticky extraction would suggest that its time to get the calipers out and check measurements on the fired Federal brass. Diameter just ahead of the head? The part that doesn't always get sized if you're trying to minimize workhardening the brass.

 

[Petrol & Powder]

Sticky extraction would suggest that its time to get the calipers out and check measurements on the fired Federal brass. Diameter just ahead of the head? The part that doesn't always get sized if you're trying to minimize workhardening the brass.

That was one of my thoughts.
It might explain the cylinder binding as well if the cartridge wasn't seating fully in the chamber.
The same dies were used for the other cartridges and they sized fine, as always.
It seemed odd that it was just the Federal brass but I could be missing some other factor.

 

[fiver]

i recall a lot of complaints about federal this and that about 10-12 years back.
mostly i remember it being their rifle brass letting the primer pockets expand way before it's time.
i don't know if they ordered a different mix of brass in an effort to soften their cases up a little, or if they had a bad run of annealing somewhere in the forming process, and never did hear anything to explain all the shade thrown at them for a few years there.

but it could be along those lines from that time frame.

 

[Petrol & Powder]

I have no idea when or where I got this brass from, but it's possible a portion of it is all from the same lot.

 

[Tomme boy]

I have been running into THICK case walls on federal and blazer 38spec and 357mag brass. I don't find it till I run the brass into a Reding profile crimp die.

Outpost told me a long time ago that federal skips a last head strike to harden the brass. And that was why it loses the pocket faster than other brass.

 

[Reeferman]

I’ve lost count on how many reloads my Federal 38/357 cases have been through. Head stamps on many of them are very worn and only issue is mouth cracks every now and then. Load from wad cutter to mid upper range which helps I suppose.

 

[MW65]

Like the others, have gone thru a bazillion reloads of mixed brass, including federal. No issues with federal, although I recall some +p+ brass (win?) Which gave some sizing issues.

 

[Petrol & Powder]

I'm thinking I have a bunch from one lot and there is some problem with this lot and not Federal in general.
I think I'm going to isolate the offending cases and just toss them.

 

[Slughammer]

I have the Saeco 382 and use Federal brass for 38spl. The load I used for the last batch was 5.5gr of Power Pistol. The batch was 1000 in Nov 2021. I'm down to less than100 with nary a problem.

It would be interesting to get the micrometer out and measure those cases just above the rim.

 

[Elpatoloco]

I have been running into THICK case walls on federal and blazer 38spec and 357mag brass. I don't find it till I run the brass into a Reding profile crimp die.

Outpost told me a long time ago that federal skips a last head strike to harden the brass. And that was why it loses the pocket faster than other brass.

I ran into this with the 9mm Legend.

 

[Winelover]

I'm still using Federal brass (44Mag) that developed neck splits after about 20 reloadings. Just trimmed them to 44 Special length and now have 10 loading on those, since.

 

[burbank.jung]

Winchester .38 brass walls are thicker than Remington brass walls. PMC brass walls are so thick that my .358" sized 148gr WC cast bullets bulge the brass and the cartridge doesn't fit in the cylinder. For those I could chamber, they grouped poorly. Remington brass loads group the best. I never measured Federal brass but it sounds like the walls could be thin. I remember my Remington loads with 3.1gr BE being a bit harder to extract. I'd suggest using your Federal .38 brass for target loads using 2.8gr or less BE and using another brass for your hotter loads.

 

[Tomme boy]

I have run into ppu, fed,a usa,blazer,s&B that are thick. Its not all of them either. Remington has always been thin. In most other cal also. Ran into some wra 38's the other day. They all had crimped primers. Someone must have got into gramps stash for those.

 

[fiver]

the milsurp 38 brass is pretty good stuff.

 

[beagle]

The milsurp PPU stuff was okay but thick and lengths all over the spectrum. One lot, I think it was 70, had undersized primer pockets. After that, I have encountered no problems with Federal./beagle