Firewood
- Thread starter Creeker
- Start date
You mean to tell me they couldn't have gotten that last long on there??
I know guys who would've spent the rest of the day trying to do just that,... ashamedly myself among them. I'm getting better at deciding two trips is still faster than busting an axle or a leg or a sled,....
Firewood here is about anything deciduous and not too soft. Ash is just the berries, but hickory and oak work. Mulberry, osage orange - anything that grows in fence rows. My personal favorite is ash, but I'm working on a hackberry I cut up and split in June or July and it's been impressive except for the amount of ash it leaves. However, all that ash assures me a nice pile of coals in them morning to get the day's fire roaring quickly.
My stove is small (Jotul 602), so I can burn stuff others turn their noses up at, like limbs from tops, but this has been a slim year for wood. As much a hermit as I usually am, I still manage to network enough to find firewood any other year. Not so much this year.
Rally
NC Minnesota
I'll burn most anything I can get in the stove's door, mainly Oak, Maple, and Ash on my place, but I usually have 12-14 chord a year delivered in 100" lengths. Unloads it right next to the wood shed and cost $90 a chord. Never figured I could tear up a truck for less than that. We have an outdoor wood stove and heat both the house and shop with the same stove. I love Ash and get it when I can, or even Tamarack for quick fires with lots of heat, to mix with green Oak.
At first glance it looked like all that wood was on that wagon.
In 15 years that wagon has only made the 20 yard trip, from the wood pile to the porch, with that much wood without losing any rounds ......5,,,,,,,,,maybe 6 times.
It,(wagon) has made enough trips to wear the tread smooth on the front tires.
They got rotated a few years ago.
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Petrol & Powder
Well-Known Member
That Jotul may be small but you will not find a better stove on the planet.
Uninformed individuals will look at those little Jutol stoves and scoff at them.
They will say things like, "you can't get enough wood in it" or "it's too small to make heat"; they don't know what they are talking about.
Those little Jotul stoves are very efficient. I had the pleasure of running one for a while. You can get more heat out of less wood in a Jotul than just about any stove you can find. They burn clean and they are well made. It's true that you can't put a lot of wood in them and that you can't fit big pieces of wood in them but you can get more heat out of less wood with a Jotul than stoves twice their size The price you pay is you must tend it a little more often and they aren't cheap to start with.
Those little Jotul stoves punch above their weight.
Bret4207
At the casting bench in the sky. RIP Bret.
We've been burning wood almost exclusively since '99 here, and we did also from '88-'95 and back home from the first energy crisis ('72?) until I moved out. We did finally put in an old furnace that works last year, set to keep the house warm enough if the fire dies. 1890's farm houses are drafty old buggers no matter what you do. Thankfully my 2 boys enjoy playing lumberjack and cutting wood. They've sort of taken that over this year. That of course brings with it stuck tractors, broken chains, rocked chainsaw chains, hung trees and arguments about who was right and wrong. Oh well. We found this fall that most of one ridge of Red Oak had finally succumbed to multiple years of Tent Caterpillars and some real dry weather. So in addition to lots of standing dead Elm, we're cutting lots of standing dead Red Oak. Soon as we get some snow worth talking about I can use the crawler and that will make things easier. As this point things are froze up, but even with ring chains tractors have problems with ice and rock.
OTOH, I'm picking up the stove pipe for my new shop furnace today!!!!! First time in my life I'll have a heated shop! WHOOPIE!!!!!!!!!!
OTOH, I'm picking up the stove pipe for my new shop furnace today!!!!! First time in my life I'll have a heated shop! WHOOPIE!!!!!!!!!!
Bret4207
At the casting bench in the sky. RIP Bret.
Conical splitters! I forget the brand name right now, but they worked pretty good if you braced your drive unit well. THose and buzz saws have a rep for killing and maiming all out of proportion on tractor sites. Every bar in America contains a given number of guys very ready to relate how great uncle Ernie lost both legs and his nose to those 2 machines. He lost his hands to a radial arm saw and one ear to a flat belt pulley. Tragic story really since he also lost an eye to a Lawn Dart at 9 years of age. Must be millions of "Uncle Ernies" out there!
Glaciers
Alaska Land of the Midnight Sun
Yes Jotul makes a very good controlled stove. The stove that gets the most traction here in the interior of Alaska is the Blaze King. I use the Princess, one in the house and one in the shop.
Started out with a Franklin double door leaky bugger which would get a 6 hour burn. Burn would peak and tapper off. Then bought a Blaze King non catalytic medium sized stove which was a big step up. You could get 8 to 10 hours with it fairly controllable, come home from work and usually would have some coals left to kindle a new fire. Finally could afford a Princess with catalytic and wow what a difference! What I like is once you get a fire established you switch from regular draw up the pipe to going through the catalytic and if you use a heat temp gun the stack temp drops from 400* - 600* to 250* - 300*. That's impressive, and safe. That heat is now in your house. Burn time is awesome. If your stove is set to a low burn you can have coals enough to start a new fire after 24 hours.
We start using or stove when daily high temps drop consistently into the mid 20* with colder night temps. Started the fire in mid October (had a warm fall) and has not gone out yet. Once so far had to empty ashes. I take a small shovel and rake the live coals over to the side and shovel out the dead ash under that, then rake live coals back and repeat on the other half of the fire box. One coal bucket full of ash. Will need to do ash removal again before the first of the year. Pretty good in my book, about a bushel basket of ash for the entire winter.
Started out with a Franklin double door leaky bugger which would get a 6 hour burn. Burn would peak and tapper off. Then bought a Blaze King non catalytic medium sized stove which was a big step up. You could get 8 to 10 hours with it fairly controllable, come home from work and usually would have some coals left to kindle a new fire. Finally could afford a Princess with catalytic and wow what a difference! What I like is once you get a fire established you switch from regular draw up the pipe to going through the catalytic and if you use a heat temp gun the stack temp drops from 400* - 600* to 250* - 300*. That's impressive, and safe. That heat is now in your house. Burn time is awesome. If your stove is set to a low burn you can have coals enough to start a new fire after 24 hours.
We start using or stove when daily high temps drop consistently into the mid 20* with colder night temps. Started the fire in mid October (had a warm fall) and has not gone out yet. Once so far had to empty ashes. I take a small shovel and rake the live coals over to the side and shovel out the dead ash under that, then rake live coals back and repeat on the other half of the fire box. One coal bucket full of ash. Will need to do ash removal again before the first of the year. Pretty good in my book, about a bushel basket of ash for the entire winter.
Petrol & Powder
Well-Known Member
I can't speak to Alaska conditions !
In the Mid-Atlantic or New England regions you get a lot of temperature swings. Some stretches of 30-50 degree weather, Stretches of 20 degree nights and mornings with 40 degree days. Some cold snaps with single digits nights and barely making it into the 30's mid-day, if you're lucky.
Like Bret4207, I've done my time in old farm houses and I know the challenges. But, moving into the 20th century and structures with a little more insulation, you can get by with a little less stove.
The average Redneck in my part of the world will buy the biggest stove he can fit into his house. Half the time he has the windows open because it is 102 degrees in his living room. The other half of the time he has the fire choked down and he is making lots of smoke and creosote but no heat. He'll brag that he only needs to fill that stove once a day and that's true. However, out of that 110 pounds of wood he is burning over 24 hours, he's only getting a fraction of the potential heat from that fuel; most of the potential heat is going up the chimney as smoke and unburned gasses.
There are plenty of times a big stove makes sense. Big poorly insulated spaces, severe cold, stoves that must be unattended for long periods - I get it and I've been there. You do what you have to do.
BUT, if you have the ability to run a small fire hot, as opposed to a big fire cold - you'll get a lot more potential heat out of that clean burning, hot, small fire.
In the Mid-Atlantic or New England regions you get a lot of temperature swings. Some stretches of 30-50 degree weather, Stretches of 20 degree nights and mornings with 40 degree days. Some cold snaps with single digits nights and barely making it into the 30's mid-day, if you're lucky.
Like Bret4207, I've done my time in old farm houses and I know the challenges. But, moving into the 20th century and structures with a little more insulation, you can get by with a little less stove.
The average Redneck in my part of the world will buy the biggest stove he can fit into his house. Half the time he has the windows open because it is 102 degrees in his living room. The other half of the time he has the fire choked down and he is making lots of smoke and creosote but no heat. He'll brag that he only needs to fill that stove once a day and that's true. However, out of that 110 pounds of wood he is burning over 24 hours, he's only getting a fraction of the potential heat from that fuel; most of the potential heat is going up the chimney as smoke and unburned gasses.
There are plenty of times a big stove makes sense. Big poorly insulated spaces, severe cold, stoves that must be unattended for long periods - I get it and I've been there. You do what you have to do.
BUT, if you have the ability to run a small fire hot, as opposed to a big fire cold - you'll get a lot more potential heat out of that clean burning, hot, small fire.
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Rick H
Well-Known Member
My cabin up north has a Jotul F100 in it for supplemental heat. We have a propane furnace but building a wood fire takes the chill off when you get up there and takes a lot of load off the furnace. It is a small stove that only takes 15" logs but does a fine job. The cabin is a small A-Frame and pretty easy to heat.
Creeker
Well-Known Member
I like small & hot also. Things just go better. I've been blessed with plenty of place to season wood & when it's good hardwood the amount of heat is amazing. This year I sold my furnace & changed to a smaller stove. Time is catching up with me so I'm easing up on the amount of wood I produce.
Yes, SIR! You are spot on. That stove is in a 16' x 20' room with 9' ceilings and if I get ONE stick of ash in with some oak or anything else, and leave the damper open too long, I have to open the back door and a window for a while. Using ceiling fans, it moves the bedtime stoke's heat into the 14' x 14' kitchen, where the t-stat is and the furnace won't come on until just before daylight (this time of year.) Four cords per winter if I can get it and that yield about a half cup of crud out of the chimney every year. Very clean, very efficient and takes up very little space. Plus, it's pretty to look at.
I dreamed of a Jotul since I was a kid. We used mainly an Ashley knock-off and any/all manner of whatever else, but the Jotul, to me as a kid, was the holy grail of wood stoves. I wish I could have gotten a few more of these when I got this one.
THAT is one of the most important points for me right now. Sounds like @Bret4207 's boys are living my brother's and my childhood. We'd nearly kill ourselves trying to put up more wood that the ol' man could believe and we broke a lot of axe, sledge and maul handles, got old tractors stuck, broke trailers, etc. in the process. I don't possess the will to do that any more.
I used to cut with an old friend who had an outdoor stove and he'd cut huge pieces of anything he could find, so he put some pretty undesirable wood into that burner and got some pretty undesirable returns on his physical and monetary investments. He nearly crippled himself physically and almost broke himself fiscally feeding that monster. He bought a 1-ton 4x4 dually and huge trailer for cutting wood so he wouldn't have to pay for propane? OK, give the money to GM instead of the the propane company, but you're still giving it away.
My 602 sounds about on par with @Rick H 's F100, and I use a out four cords a year, starting in September and wrapping up in early May. A 16" log is as tight as I want in that stove, so rounds are short and easy to split with an old Kelly Flint-Edge or Fiskars splitting axe (which is an awesome tool, by the way) easy. I use my daily driver or "spare" Cherokee to haul a 1' long single-axle trailer wherever I want - the Jeep drags that thing all over, empty or loaded. BUT, I'm handling mush less and much smaller pieces than my younger friend. Bottom line, neither of us are getting any younger and it's time to stop proving to the world we can work harder than anyone else, which I believe has come to be a silly thought anyway. Trouble with that is that today's "kids" figured that out already - they're smarter than us old guys and guess who's still doing all the work...
@Rick H , that is one great-looking little stove there. I didn't even know they made that model. I bought the 602 over twenty years ago and have not even though t about looking at another stove since, so I've missed something, I'm sure. NOW, you have me thinking about trying to sell the Missuz on a F100 so I can move my 602 into my shop! THEN, I'll have a heated shop for the first time in MY life too! I could maybe convince her the F100 is named after the vehicle I was riving on our first date! A 1964 short-bed Ford F100 with a 223 straight six and four speed.
Geez, wood stoves and old trucks! I have to get back to work or I'd bore you guys with that the rest of the day!
Dan Schectman wrote a neat article about cutting firewood in the shadow of the '72 oil crisis a few (10?) years ago which took me RIGHT back. This was a huge influence on my life because we'd used wood and coal for shops, out-buildings, antique stores, etc as I grew up, but in 1972, the family experienced a little slip in their technological advancement when wood heat moved out of the house and the toilet moved IN. Well, we never did get an indoor toilet, but we did move wood heat back inside the home when the oil crisis hit.
Man, I better shut up now and get back to work.
Joshua
Taco Aficionado/Salish Sea Pirate/Part-Time Dragon
When I finally realized that I could work overtime on a Saturday and buy more wood with that overtime money than I could have collected and processed on that same Saturday, then things changed. I just started getting chords delivered. Hell, I even started paying the neighbor boy to stack it. Back then I was working 50-60 hours a week and had a 2 1/2 hour total commute every day.
For about two thirds of my life wood was the primary heat source in homes that I have lived in. Five years ago we moved closer to my work. We have a natural gas furnace now. Do I miss the old place and burning wood, Yes and No. I’ve got more leisure time now, a big reason that I’m able to dedicate time to reloading and shooting.
When I was out hunting this fall I resisted the urge to collect firewood. I just don’t need it right now.
Josh
For about two thirds of my life wood was the primary heat source in homes that I have lived in. Five years ago we moved closer to my work. We have a natural gas furnace now. Do I miss the old place and burning wood, Yes and No. I’ve got more leisure time now, a big reason that I’m able to dedicate time to reloading and shooting.
When I was out hunting this fall I resisted the urge to collect firewood. I just don’t need it right now.
Josh
Petrol & Powder
Well-Known Member
Joshua, you seem to be echoing my sentiments from post #14, I have mixed emotions about heating exclusively with wood.
I've done it a lot, know how to do, don't really miss it much, could do it again if needed.
When I was younger and working lots of hours, I didn't have much time or money but when I had time; it often went to obtaining firewood.
On the plus side, power outages and severe cold snaps were just a blip on the radar. I don't regret the work or the time spent, it was the right path at the time. I don't miss it either.
Jeff H, don't move that 602 to your shop, get another one for the shop! As nice as the layout is on the F100 Jotul, they will not beat the 602 or 118 models in terms of efficiency. I had a Lopi that was similar in style to the F100 (came with a house, I didn't buy it separate) and it was a good stove but it ate more wood than the 602/118 style stoves.
Both you and Joshua bring up excellent points about labor, money, equipment and the big picture. I've seen people work themselves to death and sink excessive money into equipment; under the guise of "saving" money. It's one thing if you're in the business of selling firewood but it's a different ballgame if you're cutting for yourself. Some people lose sight of that.
Speaking about the oil crisis of the 1970's (there were TWO), that did lead to a resurgence of heating with wood. There was a learning curve that was steeper for some Americans than others
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It was the 1970's when Jotul really got their foot in the door in the U.S. They were sort of "Yuppie" stoves at first but they became a bit move mainstream by the 80's. A lot of good stoves came out in the 1970's and 1980's. If there was a plus side to high oil prices, it was the resurgence of old wood stove tech that had nearly died off.
Now I'm the one rambling on......
I've done it a lot, know how to do, don't really miss it much, could do it again if needed.
When I was younger and working lots of hours, I didn't have much time or money but when I had time; it often went to obtaining firewood.
On the plus side, power outages and severe cold snaps were just a blip on the radar. I don't regret the work or the time spent, it was the right path at the time. I don't miss it either.
Jeff H, don't move that 602 to your shop, get another one for the shop! As nice as the layout is on the F100 Jotul, they will not beat the 602 or 118 models in terms of efficiency. I had a Lopi that was similar in style to the F100 (came with a house, I didn't buy it separate) and it was a good stove but it ate more wood than the 602/118 style stoves.
Both you and Joshua bring up excellent points about labor, money, equipment and the big picture. I've seen people work themselves to death and sink excessive money into equipment; under the guise of "saving" money. It's one thing if you're in the business of selling firewood but it's a different ballgame if you're cutting for yourself. Some people lose sight of that.
Speaking about the oil crisis of the 1970's (there were TWO), that did lead to a resurgence of heating with wood. There was a learning curve that was steeper for some Americans than others
.It was the 1970's when Jotul really got their foot in the door in the U.S. They were sort of "Yuppie" stoves at first but they became a bit move mainstream by the 80's. A lot of good stoves came out in the 1970's and 1980's. If there was a plus side to high oil prices, it was the resurgence of old wood stove tech that had nearly died off.
Now I'm the one rambling on......
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I appreciate the insight on the F100 compared to the 602. I looked up the 602, which is now a F602-V2, EPA 2020 certified without a cat. Probably look at at close to $1k now (I paid $500 20 years ago, under unusual circumstances*) but I cannot think of a SINGLE "improvement" I'd be able to make to home OR shop as valuable as adding that stove.
RAMBLE AWAY! I've gotten a lot out of this thread and will hang around for whatever else it has to offer.
RBHarter
West Central AR
You'd think after cut , split , stack , delivered 140+ cords over summer breaks from 81-83 I'd be over it .
Time and tools just keep killing me . I'm pretty sure I've cut close to 600 cords so the cutting , loading , splitting , stacking just isn't a really big deal . Flat ground and get the truck close , especially with the long/tall straight trees here , 5-6 cords is 3 days and a matter of keeping the saw full of gas . It's good for the kids .
Time and tools just keep killing me . I'm pretty sure I've cut close to 600 cords so the cutting , loading , splitting , stacking just isn't a really big deal . Flat ground and get the truck close , especially with the long/tall straight trees here , 5-6 cords is 3 days and a matter of keeping the saw full of gas . It's good for the kids .
Makes a lot of sense. I don't get overtime though, and if I work more than contracted for, they hold that for a year before I get it - no interest either. What fool would put up with that? Well, just one of the many pitfalls of teaching. State gets involved in everything it knows nothing about, which is ...... EVERYTHING.
But, yeah, makes a lot of sense otherwise. With this little stove that works way above it's pay-frade, I can still enjoy wood heat - RADIANT heat, have an emergency backup and a supplement to keep the propane cost way down withouiot killing myslf to feed it. TIME is still my only challenge here, and that shouldn't even be but is as everyone else wants something for nothing.
Another thing I found about "buying" firewood is that no one wants to SELL me firewood! With the surge in outside wood-burners over the past decade, firewood sellers have gotten used to being able to cut willy-nilly lengths and all manner of odd shapes. My little stove will take NOTHING over 16" and no one cuts 16". When I cut with a friend, I'd have to keep reminding him. By the end of the day, I'd have 16 1/2" pieces and 12" to 8" pieces. I'm better off just cutting on my own or I have to re-cut half of what I bought or give it away for camp-fire wood.
My wife loves the stove and the radiant heat is good for her, so I'll drag my sorry butt out into the woods as long as I still can. It's a good feeling out there and it's a good feeling to put up some firewood - good ol' fashioned "free" firewood!
Just like good ol' fashioned "free" cast bullets, gas checks, hand-loads,....
Having to ruin yourself to get any of those knocks the shine off it for sure. The trick now is to get ENOUGH without paying TOO MUCH.
Bret4207
At the casting bench in the sky. RIP Bret.
"Stickler", that's the name of the conical wood splitter Jim was speaking of. Certain death to even look at one laying on the ground! Or so the barstool experts state.
We got a tiny Jotul for a back room this fall. Little guy maybe 2 feet long and a foot across. For $25.00 I wasn't passing it up. We had another back in the 70's at home that was a completely different design, never seen another like it. There were a LOT of different stove in production after '72. Some good, some bad. I'd prefer a wood boiler with heat to the house and shop if I could, but that's not to be.
We have a local place selling bulk fertilizer bags of split wood for $200.00. Supposed to be 3 face cord, or one full cord of 16" wood. I can't believe it is, but I'm not spending the $$$ to find out. These bags hold a ton or more of fertilizer. Interesting approach. With just under 350 acres not much chance I'll be doing that.
We got a tiny Jotul for a back room this fall. Little guy maybe 2 feet long and a foot across. For $25.00 I wasn't passing it up. We had another back in the 70's at home that was a completely different design, never seen another like it. There were a LOT of different stove in production after '72. Some good, some bad. I'd prefer a wood boiler with heat to the house and shop if I could, but that's not to be.
We have a local place selling bulk fertilizer bags of split wood for $200.00. Supposed to be 3 face cord, or one full cord of 16" wood. I can't believe it is, but I'm not spending the $$$ to find out. These bags hold a ton or more of fertilizer. Interesting approach. With just under 350 acres not much chance I'll be doing that.
Petrol & Powder
Well-Known Member
Any Jotul for $25 is a DEAL !
I recall seeing a Jotul in a showroom that had a tall smoke box on top of the firebox. It was unusual looking because it was tall. I recall it being rather pricy.
By the 1980's, everyone and their brother was making a plate steel stove with firebrick liners. Some of them were decent stoves but they tended to run on the large size. They never had the character of a good cast iron stove but they worked just fine.
The outdoor, wood fired boilers (outdoor furnace) certainly have some merit. All the mess stays outside, you can control the heat in the house with a thermostat, you can have heating zones and the fireboxes are large. I always thought that if you had 12 volt circulator pumps, a solar panel and battery; you could have central heat and be immune to power failures. The drawbacks are the huge initial cost, the amount of wood you need to feed them and the service life of the boiler.
Speaking of firewood sales, one of the more novel setups I saw was a lumber mill that sold firewood by the pound. They weighed your truck when you came in, you loaded it yourself, and they weighed the truck when you left. The wood was split and mostly oak. The hitch was when the wood was wet you were buying water, not wood.
I recall seeing a Jotul in a showroom that had a tall smoke box on top of the firebox. It was unusual looking because it was tall. I recall it being rather pricy.
By the 1980's, everyone and their brother was making a plate steel stove with firebrick liners. Some of them were decent stoves but they tended to run on the large size. They never had the character of a good cast iron stove but they worked just fine.
The outdoor, wood fired boilers (outdoor furnace) certainly have some merit. All the mess stays outside, you can control the heat in the house with a thermostat, you can have heating zones and the fireboxes are large. I always thought that if you had 12 volt circulator pumps, a solar panel and battery; you could have central heat and be immune to power failures. The drawbacks are the huge initial cost, the amount of wood you need to feed them and the service life of the boiler.
Speaking of firewood sales, one of the more novel setups I saw was a lumber mill that sold firewood by the pound. They weighed your truck when you came in, you loaded it yourself, and they weighed the truck when you left. The wood was split and mostly oak. The hitch was when the wood was wet you were buying water, not wood.
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