Getting back to 9mm

[Mitty38]

Ok so I sort of traded myself out of 9mm some time ago. Had fooled around and loaded some. Never got heavy into a load for a particular bullet as I was working off of gifted bullets.

Then during the crisis gave away all my 9mm ammo and brass . I then traded my dies for a proper 380 set.

Any how to make a long story short. I got this old trashed out Glock, then started trading parts around. Next thing you know I have built a pretty nice. Great shooting, smooth operating, surprisingly reliable, G19 poly 80 Clone. I like, want to keep, load for and shoot.
Having not dealt with 9 much before, had a few Questions.

First
Ben picking up range brass. Knocking primers, cleaning and trimming. There is tons of ppu, Winchester and the Federal brands. However I have picked up quite a bit of red army.
Has anyone loaded the Red army stuff? Is it any good? Also Is mixing brass even an issue with 21ft 9mm loads?

Next
Since I have been working good so I have some back to buy dies. Thinking Lee 4 die set. Any suggestions?

And also
I have a Lyman 358242FX mould. It casts to 125 grain and .3585.
Would this be a good one to start with?
Also I still have enough red dot and universal, to last me a lifetime. Is there a red dot load that will function in a Glock type action with a button rifled barrel well? Or would I be better off sticking with universal?
Finally
Barrel checks in at a loose .355. Would it be ok to size the 358242FX to .358 after PC ??Or should I get a .356 sizer while I can right now?

 

[Brad]

Red Dot does fine in 9mm

My 9mm brass is a wide range of headstamps and all mixed. Brad ain’t got time for sorting that stuff.

Try .357 and see what that does. Throat will make a huge difference. PC does will in 9mm as long as the throat isn’t sharp and scrapes it off.

 

[Petrol & Powder]

WOW - Lots O' Questions.


First
Ben picking up range brass. Knocking primers, cleaning and trimming. There is tons of ppu, Winchester and the Federal brands. However I have picked up quite a bit of red army.
Has anyone loaded the Red army stuff? - By "Red Army stuff" are you referring to steel casings? If so, most (if not all) of that stuff is Berden primed and steel casings are generally a deal breaker in terms of reloading.


Is it any good? - See above.

Also Is mixing brass even an issue with 21ft 9mm loads?- I've had very good results with mixing brass and seldom bother to sort 9mm by make. However, sometimes you run across a type of brass that is just a PITA to deal with and I will cull those problem casings out just to get rid of them. I have, on occasion, sorted brass and gone to great lengths to extract as much accuracy as possible out of my 9mm reloads. My conclusion has been that it is generally not worth the effort to sort 9mm casings. And I can't remember the last time I trimmed a 9mm casing.

Next
Since I have been working good so I have some back to buy dies. Thinking Lee 4 die set. Any suggestions? - Dies are a ONE time purchase, so I tend to put a little more money into dies. I don't think you can go wrong with Redding or RCBS.

And also
I have a Lyman 358242FX mould. It casts to 125 grain and .3585.
Would this be a good one to start with? - 125 grains is about the max bullet weight I will shoot in a 9mm pistol. So if that profile feeds and functions in your pistol, I would say you're good to go there. The 9mm Luger does its best work with bullets between 115 - 125 grains.



Also I still have enough red dot and universal, to last me a lifetime. Is there a red dot load that will function in a Glock type action with a button rifled barrel well? - I can't speak much to Red Dot or Universial but you should be able to find a load that works with those powders.
For an "all around great 9mm powder" I heavily endorse WSF.


Or would I be better off sticking with universal? - See above


Finally
Barrel checks in at a loose .355. Would it be ok to size the 358242FX to .358 after PC ?? - I don't powder coat but I understand it adds a little diameter. If you are already at .358", I don't think I would go any larger if my barrel was closer to .355". HOWEVER, I'm surprised to hear your barrel is close to .355", most 9mm barrels run a bit larger across the grooves. If you are CERTAIN of that diameter, you might want a smaller sizing die but I would double check your measurements first.

Or should I get a .356 sizer while I can right now? - See Above

AND, in finally - Mitty38, YOU ARE THE KING OF MULTIPLE PART QUESTIONS !!!!!

 

[Mitty38]

Thanks for the input so far. A lot of food for thought.
The RED ARMY brass is bright brass it looks a lot like ppu already deprimed not a berdan in the bunch. Have junk calipers so ye. And yes i do haue a tendency to not know when it is time to shut up and listen! LOL

 

[Petrol & Powder]

OH ! You're talking about "Red Army" as a brand name and not the former Soviet Army
You had me on the wrong track there.

If it's brass casings and boxer primed, I would give it a try.

 

[popper]

powder thru and FCD you may not need, you will need a GOOD expander for cast. I don't sort 9mm except for the stepped cases. My set is rcbs with taper crimp die. IIRC expander is 38P lyman. NOE makes a decent one.

 

[Petrol & Powder]

I concur on the need for a good expander for cast bullets. For cast bullets I really like the Lyman "M" die STYLE expander (it doesn't need to be an actual Lyman expander, just that style). The NOE sizers are clones of the Lyman "M" dies style, as far as I can tell.
The main portion of the expander should be the same size as the desired bullet diameter. The casings will spring back a little after the expander is removed and that gets you pretty close to the correct neck tension without the brass sizing the bullet down. The upper "Step" portion of the expander needs to be a few thousandths larger to open the case mouth for the cast bullet.

I also concur on a taper crimp die. Cartridges that headspace on the case mouth (like 9mm Luger) should always receive a taper crimp.

 

[RBHarter]

Maybe the HP clone I had was just whinny but I worked up a load in Win , RP had feed issues , FC/Speer was fine , S&B showed the primers belly buttoning around the firing pin . Just my experience the Ruger P wasn't as fussy but I think it was bigger ......I think all the RP was farmed out by the time the Ruger arrived .

Red Dot was very sooty for me but it's a 1968 lot so take that at face value .

I got nothing for PC sizing ......... I had a gig on a range , somebody had problems with plated bullets in their 9mm and horrible leading . Only the nose and base were plated the rest of it was stripped off with quite a bit of lead as well .

Lee makes a tool and the tool does the job . They have to be stripped and cleaned upon opening the box because ......... inefficient final line prepackage inspection . I don't want to discuss the delights of a radial cracked carbide insert or the chips in lube vents thank you .
Spend the extra $15 on RCBS or "vintage" Lyman , settle for steel if need be , it's worth it .
For the record the above is not a bash just facts . If you don't mind the futzing with them and sometimes walking adjustments go ahead with the Lee .

 

[Mitty38]

Just noticed the Noe expander plugs are available for 6 bucks each. Having a Lee universal flaring die,that may just be the way to go.They have a .358x354 ap and a 359x355 ap, and 360 356ap. At that price I could order all three and see which one works best. They also have a .226x.222 insert which should help with my lead AR rounds

 

[Matt]

I have never had an issue loading mixed 9mm brass for general use. Range pickup brass is fine as long as you carefully sort and toss any Berdan primed cases. These are very hard on decapping pins. I’ve found the most important issue with bullet diameter is having a bullet diameter in mixed cases that will allow all rounds to chamber freely. A way to assure this is using the Lee carbide crimp die in 9mm. It crimps and sizes the loaded round (including the bullet of course!) to minimum dimensions so the rounds will chamber in any 9 mm. Before anyone starts screaming I’ve loaded many thousands of rounds using this die and in Glocks, SIG, and S&W handguns the ammunition will generally hold the “ten” ring of a B-27 target at 25 yards. This die allows you to tumble lube your as cast bullets and load them without further handling. Die brand? I believe the Lee 4 die set includes this die and Lee gives up nothing in quality or durability. Powder just needs to be in the Bullseye/Red Dot/231/ HP 38 range. I’ve never used Universal, but many pounds of Red Dot and it works great in 9mm. For utility use find a charge that functions the pistol reliably and stop there. I’ve never trimmed a 9mm case and never will. The worst issue is removing the primer crimp from some 9mm cases. I hadn’t loaded 9mm for several years until the recent ammunition shortage. It just wasn’t cost effective. Now it is and I cast a lot of Lee 9mm 124 grain tumble lube bullets and load a lot of mixed brash on my Dillon RL1000. They are fired through several different pistols and carbines with acceptable accuracy and 100% reliability. One final thought; the 9mm case is tapered and a little lubricant makes sizing easier even with carbide dies especially with range pickup brass fired in a variety of chambers. Lubrication is especially valuable when using progressive reloading machines.

 

[Tomme boy]

My gen4 g19 has a very tight barrel. 0.355" for factory block that is tight. I can't run anything over 0.356" If I do it will not close the slide on about half the rounds. The old ladies p365 is the same way.

With powder coated I get no leading at all sized for 0.356" I would try some sized at. 0356" and see how they work. I am even running them in my AR9 pistol and rifle with no problems.

 

[CWLONGSHOT]

Dont really do 9mm.... But do do 380,357 sig & 38supers. Always sized for the barrel. All my 380/357sig can shoot bullets I cast in .357. Cant say I have seen advantage but I like fat bullets I do generally find LESS issues using fattest bullet that fits.
My Glock 40's fac barrel wont shoot .402 without thumbing slide forward nearly every shot. But .401's cycle/shoot fine.
My 350 Legend, a 9x45 Dosent like .357 dia. I Need size all for .356.

Point is, all our talk is speculation and what our guns like. Your barrel ultimately tells ya whats proper.

CW

 

[Petrol & Powder]

...........Point is, all our talk is speculation and what our guns like. Your barrel ultimately tells ya whats proper.

CW

/\ Spot on /\
I'll say this about 9mm pistols, the barrel dimensions are all over the map.

I don’t think 9mm Luger is difficult to cast and load for, but I do think you need to match your loads to your gun.

I can load 38 Special cartridges that shoot great in several different revolvers but when dealing with 9mm, I must load to a particular gun. Sometimes I get lucky and that load will work in more than one gun but not always.

In terms of functioning and accuracy, I’ve found the 120 gr Truncated Cone [TC] bullet to be very forgiving. The 120 TC seems to be a nearly universal profile that plays well with a lot of different pistols. As for bullet diameter, well you’re going to have to find what your gun likes.

 

[Mitty38]

Took my barrel and the slug down to the local gun shop this morning. He measured both barrel and slug and affirmed my measurement of . 3555 across the grooves.
I have a Lee .358 sizer that sizes more like .3575. can size in two steps if needed, if I get a .356 bullet sizer.
Going to go with my Lyman 358242fx cast with the right alloy it's 125 grain .3585 round nose May as well start where I am at.
So....making a to get list

.356 bullet sizer (plan to size before coating but not after)
Lee 4die carbide set with taper crimp die.
.358x.354ap, .359x.355 neck sizing plugs ( one of those should get me in spec.)

 

[Mitty38]

The mould

 

[Dusty Bannister]

I think you will find the Lyman 358242 to be a very versatile bullet for both the 9MM and the 38/357. It is also the first mold I bought when getting into casting. Lyman later "improved" the product by changing the number to 356242. It also came in two different weights. Two lube groove style of about 125 grains and one lube groove style of about 92 grains. The actual weights are usually within 3-4 grains during actual production.

A big advantage of this bullet is the fact that the nose diameter is smaller than the driving bands so you are less likely to have problems with some types of rifling starting very abruptly in front of the chamber. My 38's get this bullet sized to .3585" and the 9MM's seem to do well with either the .356 or the .357. I am a bullet lube sort of guy because that is the finishing step in bullet production. What you size is generally what you get, unless the bullet grows in storage.

You mention sizing the bullet before but not after, powder coating. You might run into issues since PC will increase the diameter, and there can be variations in build up to deal with. I am sure you are aware that powder coating can also alter the form of the bullet enough that you need to adjust the seating depth due to thickness variations prevent full chambering of the cartridge.

I also tend to sort out "problem" head stamp cases just to make my life easier. It is a fun and inexpensive caliber to reload. I also really like the Lee 356-120-TC. The 6 cavity mold really produces a lot of quality bullets. The Tumble lube style of bullet are not welcome on my bench. I just have no use for them. Others love them. Good luck.

 

[Hawk]

I hope I'm not performing an executable offense.

The Recommended Load thead for the Miha 9mm 125gn HP mold

This thread was created for the Miha 9mm 125gn HP mold Group Buy boolit. Please share your favorite loads as you have opportunity.

castboolits.gunloads.com

I use the 4.0 Gr. of Red Dot with PC'ed 125 Gr. Miha hollow points. It's an excellent load.

 

[Mitty38]

I hope I'm not performing an executable offense.

The Recommended Load thead for the Miha 9mm 125gn HP mold

This thread was created for the Miha 9mm 125gn HP mold Group Buy boolit. Please share your favorite loads as you have opportunity.

castboolits.gunloads.com

I use the 4.0 Gr. of Red Dot with PC'ed 125 Gr. Miha hollow points. It's an excellent load.

Is it just me or is 4 grain Red dot the magic answer to a lot of questions?

Thing is it is usually the right answer except in 380 then 2 grain.

 

[Hawk]

4.0 Gr. of Red Dot is a very accurate load in my Glock model 26s and model 17s.
IDK the velocity, but it is not a powder puff load.
Annnnddd, since I have 8 lbs. of Red Dot, I can theoretically load 14,000 rounds.
That should get me thru the weekend!

 

[Petrol & Powder]

Took my barrel and the slug down to the local gun shop this morning. He measured both barrel and slug and affirmed my measurement of . 3555 across the lands.

Across the lands of the barrel (bore diameter) or across the grooves of the barrel from a slug driven through the barrel (groove diameter)?