Gordon's Reloading Tool
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CWLONGSHOT
Well-Known Member
I have pondered it as I read many that like it. Sorry I cant help but Ill be reading along!
CW
CW
Snakeoil
Well-Known Member
Part of the download is a manual. You should read thru the manual before you start to use it. It will make things clearer.
Basically, when the screen comes up, and I suggest that you use the Compact version to start out, you pick a caliber and then start building the load in the cells on the left side of the screen. There are pull down boxes for bullets, powder and caliber. You fill in the rest of the info for your particular firearm.
But again, read the manual. It even tells you to read the manual before you start on their website. That's what I did.
Basically, when the screen comes up, and I suggest that you use the Compact version to start out, you pick a caliber and then start building the load in the cells on the left side of the screen. There are pull down boxes for bullets, powder and caliber. You fill in the rest of the info for your particular firearm.
But again, read the manual. It even tells you to read the manual before you start on their website. That's what I did.
Snakeoil
Well-Known Member
Guys, if you have not read the manual, you are not doing yourself any favors. This ain't Candy Crush.
Invalid entries are highlighted in the left side input area with an exclamation point (!) inside a diamond shaped box. If you hover over the input area for that invalid parameter, a message will appear at the top that will tell you what is wrong. What it says might be less than what you need to know why because the program assumes you understand all the parameters used and you may not understand this particular one. I get these messages every so often because I use zero seating depth for breech seated bullets and the program is expecting fixed ammo. But it will still use zero or even a negative number for bullets seated beyond the case mouth and still run the calcs.
You might not have chosen a powder or have too small a powder charge. You need to look at all the cells, understand them and for the ones that the program does not like, figure out why they don't like it. It is normally pretty obvious once you take it cell by cell.
The first day I started using the program, I thought it was pretty easy. But then I started getting invalid entry errors and realized I needed to be more involved in the input than just picking caliber, bullet and powder and seeing what it spits out. The program also makes some assumptions and as such had default values it plugs into some cells. They may not work with what you are doing. It will take some time working with it, referencing the manual when you are stuck and experimenting with inputs to feel comfortable. But, it is by no means a difficult program to use.
We are all wired differently. I go thru this every day with my wife. What can be blatantly obvious to me can be totally invisible to her. It's nobody's fault and it is not a reason to criticize. So, I will say this and it may help. If you have poor reading comprehension GRT might be difficult for you to use. If you are totally baffled by electrical diagrams and even when explained, you are still overwhelmed, then this program may not be something you will quickly learn and understand. That does not mean that you won't eventually. But it may take more effort and possibly pain and frustration on your end before that happens. I think your desire to learn how to use the program because you have a need and want to understand more about internal ballistics will determine the pace at which you will learn to use it. If you are simply curious and only want to dabble in this stuff, then my guess is you won't have the true initiative to work past the challenges and frustrations to figure it out. And these comments are only made because I am fully aware how different we all are when it comes to how our brains function. I still maintain that this program is not difficult to use if you take the time to understand what is in front of you, on the screen.
If you have specific questions about some of the variables, I suggest that you post them here. I'm no expert on GRT but have been using it for about 2 months now. If I cannot answer your specific question, perhaps other members familiar with GRT or ballistic variables in general can provide an answer. If you have been following my thread on my .38-55, you'll see I'm learning along the way. I would think that this thread could become beneficial to all as more start to use GRT to develop loads.
Invalid entries are highlighted in the left side input area with an exclamation point (!) inside a diamond shaped box. If you hover over the input area for that invalid parameter, a message will appear at the top that will tell you what is wrong. What it says might be less than what you need to know why because the program assumes you understand all the parameters used and you may not understand this particular one. I get these messages every so often because I use zero seating depth for breech seated bullets and the program is expecting fixed ammo. But it will still use zero or even a negative number for bullets seated beyond the case mouth and still run the calcs.
You might not have chosen a powder or have too small a powder charge. You need to look at all the cells, understand them and for the ones that the program does not like, figure out why they don't like it. It is normally pretty obvious once you take it cell by cell.
The first day I started using the program, I thought it was pretty easy. But then I started getting invalid entry errors and realized I needed to be more involved in the input than just picking caliber, bullet and powder and seeing what it spits out. The program also makes some assumptions and as such had default values it plugs into some cells. They may not work with what you are doing. It will take some time working with it, referencing the manual when you are stuck and experimenting with inputs to feel comfortable. But, it is by no means a difficult program to use.
We are all wired differently. I go thru this every day with my wife. What can be blatantly obvious to me can be totally invisible to her. It's nobody's fault and it is not a reason to criticize. So, I will say this and it may help. If you have poor reading comprehension GRT might be difficult for you to use. If you are totally baffled by electrical diagrams and even when explained, you are still overwhelmed, then this program may not be something you will quickly learn and understand. That does not mean that you won't eventually. But it may take more effort and possibly pain and frustration on your end before that happens. I think your desire to learn how to use the program because you have a need and want to understand more about internal ballistics will determine the pace at which you will learn to use it. If you are simply curious and only want to dabble in this stuff, then my guess is you won't have the true initiative to work past the challenges and frustrations to figure it out. And these comments are only made because I am fully aware how different we all are when it comes to how our brains function. I still maintain that this program is not difficult to use if you take the time to understand what is in front of you, on the screen.
If you have specific questions about some of the variables, I suggest that you post them here. I'm no expert on GRT but have been using it for about 2 months now. If I cannot answer your specific question, perhaps other members familiar with GRT or ballistic variables in general can provide an answer. If you have been following my thread on my .38-55, you'll see I'm learning along the way. I would think that this thread could become beneficial to all as more start to use GRT to develop loads.
Reloader762
Active Member
Mine says NIGHTLY-Linux because I use Linux OS. On Windows, the Icon will appear in the extracted folder and will have a .exe extension beside it.
How to install GRT
Once open, you should see this.
How to install GRT
Once open, you should see this.
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Snakeoil
Well-Known Member
Reloader is showing the full feature screen. The compact screen does not offer as many variables. So far, I've only needed the compact version. But I think I might need to move to the full feature version based upon the issue I just posted in another thread for fixed vs breech seated ammo. I'm still learning this stuff too. I used to have a VP that reminded us on a regular basis, "You don't know what you don't know." I think I've got some of that going on here, myself.
Reloader762
Active Member
Just in case any of you that use this program dont know, you can import quick loads file / data into the databases. Just open the selected database, click on file, then import. NOE has a quick loads projectile database file on all the cast bullet designs he offers. Just unzip the file in a place where you can find it later to import in the projectile database.
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Reloader762
Active Member
GRT was a work in progress as far as the powder library was concerned. Powder models are based on user submitted data from test loads with a given powder, then the data was analyzed, and a powder model was created. Unfortunately, when Gordon the creator of the program passed away it pretty much stopped, but several individuals who were working on the project are trying to put together a team to continue Gordon's work with the program. There is a Discord channel where you can submit question to all the various aspects of the program https://discord.com/channels/621039234404581406/792515971997892668
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JohnForrest
New Member
Snakeoil, Ive looked over the manual and a few video's but having trouble finding info on how to analize powder options. I admit, I even have trouble with candy crunch so theres that.
I'm looking to find a good powder for 7.62x25. I looked to GRT since there are little to no published load data with pressures. The other issue I have is having barrels 4" 9" and 16".
I appreciate you offering to help, so I hope this question might be interesting to others.
Again not asking for specific help, just suggestions on where to look for answers? I think I am missing a big source somewhere.
I'm looking to find a good powder for 7.62x25. I looked to GRT since there are little to no published load data with pressures. The other issue I have is having barrels 4" 9" and 16".
I appreciate you offering to help, so I hope this question might be interesting to others.
Again not asking for specific help, just suggestions on where to look for answers? I think I am missing a big source somewhere.
Snakeoil
Well-Known Member
The best way to analyze powder options it to take a given case and bullet and just select different powders in an appropriate range to see what the curves and data tell you. That's how I have used it and it has become useful for some members of the club in seeing the difference in peak pressure and the slope of the curves. Unique is a popular powder at the club for reduced load in old BP and military cartridges. This is primarily due to a very respected member of the club swearing by Unique and also shooting very well using it. But when some of the followers looked at the Unique pressure curve and the 2400 pressure curve for the same MV, it was a no brainer for them to move to 2400.
Believe me, I'm no ballistics expert. GRT has made me better informed. It's also helped me develop loads for my .32-40. I've also used it to help others with loads at the club. Some were for guys who simply followed a recipe in a book and wanted to know what it was doing. The MV numbers also were of interest for them. I have let quite a few shoot over my chrono but I don't always have it with me. Some just don't want to impose regardless that I offer to bring for them to shoot over. People are funny.
Believe me, I'm no ballistics expert. GRT has made me better informed. It's also helped me develop loads for my .32-40. I've also used it to help others with loads at the club. Some were for guys who simply followed a recipe in a book and wanted to know what it was doing. The MV numbers also were of interest for them. I have let quite a few shoot over my chrono but I don't always have it with me. Some just don't want to impose regardless that I offer to bring for them to shoot over. People are funny.
JonB
Halcyon member
JohnForrest,
If I was gonna work up a toasty load with jacketed bullets, I'd probably use AA #5. Hodgdon's online data center has data for 30 Luger for AA#5 (as well as #2 and #7). I realize the 30 luger is a lower pressure cartridge, but my experience with AA#5 in 40S&W, tells me it's a good (and dense) powder for such a task, to work up to 7.62x25 speeds.
OR
here is a thorough article that includes cast bullet data, if that's what you are after?
www.shootingtimes.com
If I was gonna work up a toasty load with jacketed bullets, I'd probably use AA #5. Hodgdon's online data center has data for 30 Luger for AA#5 (as well as #2 and #7). I realize the 30 luger is a lower pressure cartridge, but my experience with AA#5 in 40S&W, tells me it's a good (and dense) powder for such a task, to work up to 7.62x25 speeds.
OR
here is a thorough article that includes cast bullet data, if that's what you are after?
Handloading the 7.62x25 Tokarev - Shooting Times
The bottleneck 7.62x25 Tokarev is a fun cartridge, and handloading it increases the round's versatility.
www.shootingtimes.com
JohnForrest
New Member
It's funny JonB, I actually bought a 1911 Tokarev barrel from Dr. Brad. Maybe he used it in that article?
I have it in my head to try for full case fill for the loads I'll be using in my 9" PPS-43C. That particular gun will fire out of battery and I have had some setback issues already.
Snakeoil, I am just now getting used to plugging in the various options. So it's starting to make better sense to me.
Thanks for getting back to me!
I also have a 16" AR in 7.62x25 that I love to shoot Prairie Dogs with. I started shooting the lighest Lee rifle bullet Powder coated with a GC. It weighs about 119 grains and shot nice with Power Pistol. I and looking forward to seeing what GRT can tell me about that and find a better option.
The fella that built the barrel suggested Power Pistol to get the gas up where it needed to be to cycle.
I have it in my head to try for full case fill for the loads I'll be using in my 9" PPS-43C. That particular gun will fire out of battery and I have had some setback issues already.
Snakeoil, I am just now getting used to plugging in the various options. So it's starting to make better sense to me.
Thanks for getting back to me!
I also have a 16" AR in 7.62x25 that I love to shoot Prairie Dogs with. I started shooting the lighest Lee rifle bullet Powder coated with a GC. It weighs about 119 grains and shot nice with Power Pistol. I and looking forward to seeing what GRT can tell me about that and find a better option.
The fella that built the barrel suggested Power Pistol to get the gas up where it needed to be to cycle.
Reloader762
Active Member
Hornady, Sierra as well as Lyman have load data for .308" jacketed bullets in 85 and 90 gr. weights, Lyman also has cast lead data and both Lyman and Lee make bullet molds that work in the TOK, I cast the Lee .311" 93 gr. RN for my bothers CZ. Hornady list eight powders with their bullet, Sierra list thirteen and Lyman list on average about nine per bullet in jacketed and cast lead, many of those powders are used across the board in all manuals with a couple of exceptions like Alliant 2400 and Unique.
After you select the cartridge, barrel length and bullet, in the powder section once you select the MAX charge weight i.e. Powder Mass as it's called that you think you want to use right under that you can select how many Loading Ladder Steps you want to use and the Step Size as in tenths, half or full grain. Once you double-check all your numbers, hit enter and the ladder steps appear over to the right in the Full screen version, you can click on each step, and it will give you the estimated ballistics such as Max Pressure, MV, Energy, Propellant burn % and rate etc. etc.
After you select the cartridge, barrel length and bullet, in the powder section once you select the MAX charge weight i.e. Powder Mass as it's called that you think you want to use right under that you can select how many Loading Ladder Steps you want to use and the Step Size as in tenths, half or full grain. Once you double-check all your numbers, hit enter and the ladder steps appear over to the right in the Full screen version, you can click on each step, and it will give you the estimated ballistics such as Max Pressure, MV, Energy, Propellant burn % and rate etc. etc.
Not about GRT exactly but found an ADI table about their powders.
Interesting comparisons. 1680/4227/110/296/2205
Powder equivalents
Powder equivalents Note: This table shows only approximate equivalent values within about 5%. Actual burning rates can vary depending on the calibre, firearm, loading components and practices, as well as from powder lot to lot. As a consequence, it must be understood that Australian Munitions...
www.adiworldclass.com.au