H4831???

[RBHarter]

I've spent enough time with IMR 4350 to really know it and what to expect from it .

Has anyone spent that kind of time with H4831 ?
I don't want to have to shoot 2,000 rounds in 5 cases from 22-45 cal to get a feel for how much case you have to have for it to peak with a just full case and where it starts to clean up. Based on data examples it won't top out in the 308 family. I'm wondering about Mauser family and where I can expect the pressure to hit and truly clean up , actual pressure.

I've never had blow by to the extreme I had with the 275 Rigby . The start loads actually had soot lines behind the shoulder , 178 gr cast with reference data for the 175 gr hot core . I suspect that I'm already over 2000 fps 2 gr below jacketed start .

I know it's a full case jacketed powder in the 25-06' but I don't think 3100 fps is where I want to start .

 

[RicinYakima]

Not a lot of experience, but it works OK for 200 and 220 grain jacketed bullets in 30/06. IMR4350 was better. For cast bullets, it can be used like black powder in straight wall ONLY cases like the 45/70. 100% density and just lightly compressed. FWIW.

 

[Rick H]

My go to powder in 7mm Rem Mag with 160-162 gr. jacketed bullets at 2960 fps. (I developed my load 35 yrs ago and it was near max. in published data then. Today I am way over max but my rifle doesn't know it.)
I also use it in my 6mm Remington with 95-100gr. jacketed bullets pushing them just a touch over 3000fps.

In both the cases are near full, very accurate. All of my use of H4831 has been with newly manufactured powder not the old war surplus stocks.

 

[Winelover]

My go to powder in 7mm Rem Mag with 160-162 gr. jacketed bullets at 2960 fps. (I developed my load 35 yrs ago and it was near max. in published data then. Today I am way over max but my rifle doesn't know it.)
I also use it in my 6mm Remington with 95-100gr. jacketed bullets pushing them just a touch over 3000fps.

In both the cases are near full, very accurate. All of my use of H4831 has been with newly manufactured powder not the old war surplus stocks.

Same here. Used it with good results with jacketed. Never tried it with cast. Haven't loaded any jacketed bullets in over 25 years. Would have to look up the cartridges, I use it in, back then.

 

[CZ93X62]

My 4831 time has been small, and all with the IMR version--not the H.

It did good work with 100 grain j-words in 243. It does not meter worth a flop through my RCBS Competition Powder Measure. (I believe one of the companies makes an "SC" variant of 4831 to alleviate this tendency, but I haven't tried it). I also tried it with 250 grain j-words in 338 Win Mag; it did OK.

It was such a PITA to meter I just got a set of powder spoons from Lee and my trickler and scaled all of the charges that way. I am a big fan of ball/spherical powders for good reasons.

 

[Winelover]

Went down to the shop and looked up my uses of H-4831 powder.

243W with, heavy for caliber, 100 grain jacketed.

270W with, mid weight, 140 grain jacketed

338W with, light for caliber, 200 grain jacketed.

 

[Winelover]

All stick powers are a PITA to dispense with a manual measure. Hence, I went to the RCBS Chargemaster.

 

[Missionary]

We buy it by the 8 #. Medium cases (308 size ) to large with "heavy for caliber" projectiles get good service. 90% + loadings work best. 100% seldom dissapoints. We also use scoops.

 

[Glaciers]

All my experience is with surplus H4831 still have about 8 or 9 pounds. One dollar per pound in the late 60’s. My use was 338 mag with 275 Speers and 250 Hornady, 30-06 with the heavier bullets 190 to 220 for lighter 30-06 IMR4350 was the standard. When I had a 25-06 it was my powder of choice. Mainly because I had lots of cheap powder and it worked good. I believe you could use it in the 348 but I never did. The loads used for these calibers are considered over max today, but like Rick H the rifles didn’t complain.
Yeah stick powders are a pain but I grew up with nothing but stick powders didn’t get introduced to ball powders for rifles till well into the 80’s, but I had a good inventory of stick powders by then, so crunch it up in the Lyman 55 Was the norm.

 

[Winelover]

For the heavier 338W, I use AA-4350............also works good in 243W. However, for light for caliber (55 grain) 243W, AA 2520 gets the nod, as well in most 308W jacketed loadings. Plus, 2520 being a ball powder, is a breeze to dispense in manual measures.

AA 4350, is the only one that I've used with cast, with success.

 

[Ian]

I used H in the .270 under heavy PP bullets and in the '06 with jax and cast, found it sensitive to charge weight. Erratic up to a point, then smooths out, then spikes up suddenly with small increase. Never really fell in love with it for the cartridges I was loading. Imr and h 4350 and 4064 did better for me in non-magnum cases.

 

[CWLONGSHOT]

I like to dedicate a powder to a caliber. Not that that powder cannot serve multiple calibers, but generally try different ones.
4831 was my 270 powder. I tried it in 7mag but like re19/22 better. 4350 is one thats used in a few. 30-06, 243, 358 NM love it.

When I started playing with the 6mm Rem I discovered that 4831 IMR & H as well as H- SC where top powders!
I surfed load books and manuals for any powder that bested 3K with 100's. Then compared to my powders on hand. I did buy a couple Powders but in the end I could not best IMR/H 4831. SxS they preformed very similarly and both gave top accuracy and velocity. I always felt the 6mm got under loaded. It runs less pressure but dosent need to and altho it has more PC often sees posted numbers less then the 243. Then along comes the creed with even less PC yet bests both calibers for velocitoes. I made my 6mm Rem on a '06 action and had it throated for 105g bullets seated to base of neck. (Loaded long) Im able to pass 3200 fps with a 105g bullets W/O pressure signs. Using 4831. Others that claimed higher velocities did not deliver. I have chosen IMR only because I have more then other two.

I find it just a even tempered as any if the other powders like 3031/4064/4350 and will always have some in my magazine.

CW

 

[waco]

H4831 is my brother’s go to powder in his .260 with jacketed bullets. I’ve had some luck with it in .308 with HV cast.

 

[Glaciers]

Haven’t tried it my 260, will have to look into it

 

[Charles Graff]

4831 was Jack O'Connor's go to [powder for the 270. I have used lots of it. I still prefer 4350 for a slow powder but 4831 will get er done.

 

[RicinYakima]

4831 was Jack O'Connor's go to [powder for the 270. I have used lots of it. I still prefer 4350 for a slow powder but 4831 will get er done.

If I have to buy powder it would be 4350. But I am down to my last one pound + of surplus 4831, so that may happen.

 

[JonB]

Back in 2013, I was given 3 very old 1lb Dupont cans with hand written grease pencil marking "4831"
The can tops and bottoms had a wee bit of internal surface rust (sidewall was paperboard), but powder looked good and there was no smell of any kind. I did a internet image search to get a visual comparison, once I seen what there was to see, I felt comfortable to load some 30-06 to test this powder (200gr jacketed). 10 @ Starting load and 10 with a grain more. They all shot well and felt recoil was like the typical factory/armory round. My notes mentioned 3" grouping at 100yd, but the smoke had a stink to it. After the positive test results, I blended those 3 cans and repackaged it for storage. I haven't had a need to use any since...so it's still on the shelf.

 

[L Ross]

I can only offer one example of experimenting with surplus H4831. That was with a hunting load in the .30-06. I used the 311284 that weigh 216 grains with ACWW plus a little tin. At 51.0 grains I hit 1,900 fps, clean brass, decent accuracy, and all of the recoil I wanted from a Springfield Sporter with a hard plastic butt plate. I tried dacron filler and the non filler loads were more accurate.

I shot an adult doe at about 40 yards and had a decent exit wound I could stick two fingers into. Despite the non flat point I felt like I got some useful expansion. The doe only went about 20 yards after impact. Quartering shot behind the front leg, exiting in front of the off shoulder, other than a rib, no bone was involved.

 

[RBHarter]

Well ..........

It looks like this will be a learning experience for us all . Just another bend in the learning curve .

I had read something once long ago that the 20mm cannon was fueled by 4831 , which Hogdon had held a war contract to produce. That was how they had rail cars full of the stuff left to repackage 30 years after to war ended an the contracts were cancelled.
In case anyone cares the Oerlikon 20×128 mm consumed 400 gr of 4831 to launch a 2000 gr bullet 2700 fps 280-1000 rpm . They were necked going in but came out straight with a rebated rim . Greased cases in a blow back action in WWI with 15-100 round mags , belt fed by WWII . Oddly enough it appears that
everyone had the same 20mm differing only by projectile.
I happen to have a spent case .

Armed with that (unintentionally punny), it would seem that with known data , research confirmed by experience here , I'll just treat it like 4350 plus 10 gr of bullet . Soot in between mummies and true clean , with mummies up to 25-28kpsi & soot to 32-34 kpsi . Being a bit slower I expect the clean up a little later .

 

[Rockydoc]

4831 was the first powder I used for reloading. It was truly war surplus. I bought it in a 50 pound tin box with wood framing around the outside, approximately two feet cubed. I sold off most of it so it cost me nothing, made a profit. I loaded 300 Savage, 270 Win, 6.5X06AI, 264 Win Mag, I liked it then but I don't use it much any more. I don't load much jacketed ammo any more, just for the kids and grandkids, and for that I prefer 4350.