heavy HP 38/357
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CWLONGSHOT
Well-Known Member
This thread is quite popular across four ither forums I am on!!
hahahha
Not a far streach from My 358430 I am wanting to HP.
Im looking at this one but fear its not gonna work. But would be a cheaper option if it could. Trouble I see is it carries .357 u til it dosent well into the Ogive. UNLIKE the 358430 who has a driving band @ full dia and smaller for entire nose.
cW
hahahha
Not a far streach from My 358430 I am wanting to HP.
Im looking at this one but fear its not gonna work. But would be a cheaper option if it could. Trouble I see is it carries .357 u til it dosent well into the Ogive. UNLIKE the 358430 who has a driving band @ full dia and smaller for entire nose.
cW
Sold my true snubbie to Brad, I think it was 6 1/2 incher, almost barreless. 
CWLONGSHOT
Well-Known Member
I had to know... 
I just got off the phone with Al @ NOE.
that bullet above is different. But the 360-197 RN is pretty close to the 358430! Good info from Al & I decided I needed it.
So, Al has some more of my $$ and he is gonna send me the mold!
I just got off the phone with Al @ NOE.that bullet above is different. But the 360-197 RN is pretty close to the 358430! Good info from Al & I decided I needed it.
So, Al has some more of my $$ and he is gonna send me the mold!
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Petrol & Powder
Well-Known Member
I'm sorry, but I'm going to be the negative voice here.
This is more an effort to sell molds than an "improved" bullet.
There is an unavoidable correlation between the weight of projectiles and the velocity of those same projectiles. Within the confines of acceptable pressures there is an optimal bullet weight for a caliber. There is a reason that standard bullet weights became the "Standard" weight.
You can trade weight for velocity or velocity for weight. There is no magic, previously undiscovered heavy bullet weight for the 38 Special.
Sorry, but that's how I see it.
This is more an effort to sell molds than an "improved" bullet.
There is an unavoidable correlation between the weight of projectiles and the velocity of those same projectiles. Within the confines of acceptable pressures there is an optimal bullet weight for a caliber. There is a reason that standard bullet weights became the "Standard" weight.
You can trade weight for velocity or velocity for weight. There is no magic, previously undiscovered heavy bullet weight for the 38 Special.
Sorry, but that's how I see it.
Ian
Notorious member
And it will hit high out to about when it starts dropping like a rock. Still trying to figure out what I'm missing here 'cuz I don't get it.
Hollow-point .38 Special bullets don't do what they're supposed to unless cast of pure lead.
Heavy RN??? Not good on game, bad guys, or paper targets.
The hollow point might do do really well if downloaded in a .35 Remington, maybe 14-1500 fps...but the nose is too durn small for the lands. Same issue with revolvers, too.
Oh well, no one should ever say something must also be practical to be enjoyable, should they?
Hollow-point .38 Special bullets don't do what they're supposed to unless cast of pure lead.
Heavy RN??? Not good on game, bad guys, or paper targets.
The hollow point might do do really well if downloaded in a .35 Remington, maybe 14-1500 fps...but the nose is too durn small for the lands. Same issue with revolvers, too.
Oh well, no one should ever say something must also be practical to be enjoyable, should they?
Ian
Notorious member
BTW, I dreamt up, prototyped, blueprinted, and commissioned a 300-grain .45 Colt bullet for SAAs and leverguns operating at standard pressures. Tje concept was a heavy, slow, thumper. Main reason for the extra 50 grains of mass was so in a 20" rifle it would maintain as much KO power as possible when limited to 1000 feet per second....suppressed. It works out that max pressure with a variety of pistol/shotgun powders pushes it along at just the right speed to be nice and quiet in the suppressed rifles. It of course prints high from the revolvers out to about 40 yards, but only peaks out about 3" high so I can live with it. The other issue is stability. While Greenhill says it should be fine, 1 turn in 20" doesn't clump up the bullet holes made by the 300-grainers as snugly as it will with 250s.
Petrol & Powder
Well-Known Member
As Abraham Lincoln once said, "One war at a time". So I'm going to set aside the entire HP issue and just focus on the ridiculously heavy 38 Special bullet concept.
A 38 Special bullet weighing in at 195-200 grains is going to be slow, like really slow. Yes, this has been used in the past and there's a reason that concept was abandoned.
It seems every now and then someone will "discover" a heavy for caliber bullet, as if they found the source of the Nile.
A 38 Special bullet weighing in at 195-200 grains is going to be slow, like really slow. Yes, this has been used in the past and there's a reason that concept was abandoned.
It seems every now and then someone will "discover" a heavy for caliber bullet, as if they found the source of the Nile.
CWLONGSHOT
Well-Known Member
I was looking at my 358430 bullet last night next to a 38 S&W case. The darn bullet is LONGER!!
Powder cap is TINY!!!
I almost loded a few just because!!
My mold (360-197) is due here today. Looking forward to casting tonight!
CW
Powder cap is TINY!!!
I almost loded a few just because!!
My mold (360-197) is due here today. Looking forward to casting tonight!
CW
CWLONGSHOT
Well-Known Member
There is a mold Id like to have! I have heavier and lighter but mothing is 250g size.
Good lookkin bullet Rick!!
CW
Good lookkin bullet Rick!!
CW
Missionary
Well-Known Member
I would not be thrilled to get thwapped with that big RN cast of soft lead at any speed.
RBHarter
West Central AR
I spent 2 yr waiting for the 35-250 mould to come a long and when it did it came with Lee dies , 2 boxes of Speer jacketed , 2000 aluminum checks and 2 boxes of Hornady checks and a bunch formed mismatched brass and MTM boxes . You gotta be ready to pounce when stuff comes up . About the only way it could have been better is if there had been RCBS or Lyman dies to update the Lee set I had for 358 . The 250 is definitely the best shooting bullet I have for the 358 so far .
CZ93X62
Official forum enigma
CW pointed out some STUFF with the 38 S&W vis-a-vis the Lyman #358430. It also holds true for the NEI #169A I had made up for the 38/200 revolvers I play with (S&W M&P x 5" and Webley-Enfield DAO). Bullets are both longer than the cases they fit into!
The rationale behind the 38/200 via the British armed forces prior to WWII was that the elongated heavy RN bullet would somehow be equivalent in effectiveness to the older 455 cartridge used in WWI. It was no wonder cartridge, either--but was likely better than the 38/200. That's the problem with the people deciding what ammo gets used to repel boarders in either military or police venues--the shotcallers with the most input are also the least likely to actually use the items in the real world.
There might be some validity to the British notion that their 38/200 bullet or the #358430 was prone to tumble after contact with a target. My findings vs. jackrabbits showed tendency to exit raggedly at lower speeds (like that of the 38/200) about half the time. #358430 run at 1100-1200 FPS from the 357 Magnum drilled straight through. FWIW, all critters hit were DRT effects. No bullet wound does anyONE or anyTHING any GOOD whatsoever.
Run in 38 S&W, and hitting steel targets......the #358477 @ 700-725 FPS give a pleasant PA-TINK when they connect. The 200 grainers at 625-650 FPS give a stronger CLANG, there is clearly more impact energy going on there. The #358430 has been WONDERFULLY accurate for me for almost 40 years, fired from 700 FPS in 38 Special to 1200 FPS in 357 Magnum. This bullet cast as a Bruce B Soft Point would be a great hunting bullet in 357 Magnum rifles.
The rationale behind the 38/200 via the British armed forces prior to WWII was that the elongated heavy RN bullet would somehow be equivalent in effectiveness to the older 455 cartridge used in WWI. It was no wonder cartridge, either--but was likely better than the 38/200. That's the problem with the people deciding what ammo gets used to repel boarders in either military or police venues--the shotcallers with the most input are also the least likely to actually use the items in the real world.
There might be some validity to the British notion that their 38/200 bullet or the #358430 was prone to tumble after contact with a target. My findings vs. jackrabbits showed tendency to exit raggedly at lower speeds (like that of the 38/200) about half the time. #358430 run at 1100-1200 FPS from the 357 Magnum drilled straight through. FWIW, all critters hit were DRT effects. No bullet wound does anyONE or anyTHING any GOOD whatsoever.
Run in 38 S&W, and hitting steel targets......the #358477 @ 700-725 FPS give a pleasant PA-TINK when they connect. The 200 grainers at 625-650 FPS give a stronger CLANG, there is clearly more impact energy going on there. The #358430 has been WONDERFULLY accurate for me for almost 40 years, fired from 700 FPS in 38 Special to 1200 FPS in 357 Magnum. This bullet cast as a Bruce B Soft Point would be a great hunting bullet in 357 Magnum rifles.