Help designing a heavier 30-30 bullet.

A

abj

Active Member
Basis mold is the Accurate 31-155J. I had Tom copy another bullet with changes and this was his/my result. The nose length and diameter was the driving changes plus I wanted the driving bands to throw .3115. I wanted no larger than .300 on the nose and .299/.300 is what I got. No complaints, this bullet will chamber in all my levers while crimped in the crimp groove. It will shoot lights out in every 30-30 bolt and lever I own.

Here is my thoughts on a heavier bullet that will fit the mag length on the Savage 340 and have the same OAL as the above bullet. According the specs. this 155 is .425 inches to the top of the crimp groove. How can I get a heavier bullet (same OAL) and not be below the neck and shoulder junction.
1- go to a single lube groove, thereby increasing the drive band length? How long can the bullet be below the top of the crimp groove before the top side of the gas check is exposed to the powder gasses?

The purpose of all this is to have a heavier hunting bullet for increased terminal performance and knock down power on silly-wets.
One added note. The current bullet sightly engraves the nose just forward of the front driving band.

Thanks,
Tony
 
Ian

Ian

Notorious member
Get the 31-170W. More meat in the nose. Don't sacrifice lube grooves unless you powder coat, then go to a micro-band design to gain maybe 5 grains.

Don't worry about the gas check being in the powder space. If the 155 works well for you, add driving bands.

With the .30-30 you quicly reach diminishing returns when adding mass to the bullet. Peak pressure being the limiting factor, you can't push heavy bullets nearly as fast and that trade-off begins in earnest at about 150 grains. You give up trajectory and downrange energy very quickly as velocity drops. Lower BC bullets (wfn, rfn) will give up 2-300 fps from the muzzle by 100 yards. 1900 fps from 20" barrel is about as fast as you can reasonably push a 170-grain bullet. WW748 at about 34.5 grains and a 155-ish bullet can see north of 2300 fps from a 22" barrel. Look at the Lee 155 grain SKS bullet with the pointy nose and push it hard with 3031 or 748 for maximum silkywet impact downrange. For hunting, the 31-170W is about as good as it gets. Push to 1850-1900 at the muzzle with Reloder 7, 3031, or 748 for hunting. You will have considerable recoil and muzzle blast with either bullet when pushing them hard.
 
P

popper

Well-Known Member
You can push 185gr to 2K but hard on the shoulder. Part of problem is where do you put the extra alloy - nose?
 
fiver

fiver

Well-Known Member
the only way your getting more weight on the nose is to make it bigger around in the spots there ain't no steel, and combine it with just barely long enough to not affect feeding or magazine length.
but then you risk the chance of changing the COG too far forward.

your best bet is to make the drive bands longer and shuffle the lube grooves around, then add some weight right in front of the crimp groove.

if you look at what lyman does, they add a touch more nose length and another full drive band to the bottom of the gas check shank.
 
Ian

Ian

Notorious member
CZ93X62 said:
The 190 grain bullet in the 303 Savage was VERY popular in Canada for many years. There had to be a reason.
Click to expand...

True, but a little more internal case volume = more room for slow powder and more velocity for sililar pressure.
 
A

abj

Active Member
Thanks guys, I had to read your responses a couple of times slowly to grasp each solution. First question is for Ian, I don't see a 31-170W?

Fiver- So lengthen the front driving band north of the crimp groove will make my nose length longer than the .41 inches. If we add it to the bottom of the bottom drive band, north of the gas check shank sounds more doable to me but you think the COG will shift if I'm understanding you.

The nose of the 155J is what makes this bullet work so well for me. I have the Lyman 173 but have to crimp on near the front of the front driving band.
It works that way but I would rather have it in a crimp groove. If we use part of Fiver's suggestion and add it to the bottom then the crimp to nose numbers stay the same as the 155.

I may be asking too much of this design and might be better going to the 31-175B which is the saeco 315 clone. Crimp to nose is exactly the same on it as the 155J at .41 inches. The meplat is also exactly the same at .18.

Thoughts?
Tony
 
A

abj

Active Member
Just for clarification, my loads are using 4759,5744,2400 mostly and in the range of 1850 give or take. Alloy is about 2.3 tin and 3.8 antimony and in the 35 remington the nose will roll back and retain full bullet weight on the few recovered from white tails using the Lee 200.
I trying to get the 30-30 to the safe max for killing power, ie heavy as possible in that velocity range.
Tony
 
A

abj

Active Member
Joshua, I like that bullet, but I am afraid it won't chamber being full diameter at the base of the nose. I have never shot one with that big a meplat either, but it may look bigger than it really is. Looks like a good hunting bullet.
Tony
 
Joshua

Joshua

Taco Aficionado/Salish Sea Pirate/Part-Time Dragon
Have you done a pound cast. Should be able to measure on a pound cast what will and won’t chamber.
 
A

abj

Active Member
No I haven't. No excuses, just haven't made it a priority. The two Lymans I have 170 RN and 173 FN, the 173 works if deep seated. the 170 cast a 302 nose and you can't seat deep enough to chamber without crimping on the nose. I curse both those molds because neither will throw a .311.
When I got the 155J I thought I had died and gone to reloaders heaven everything worked so well.
So I thought just increase the weight below the crimp groove and I would have a ?????grain heavier bullet.
I still think Fiver is right, decrease the lube groove slightly and add that metal to the driving bands. It I can get to 175, just call it good.
 
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CWLONGSHOT

CWLONGSHOT

Well-Known Member
Dont forget ARSENAL MOLDS!!

I have a 311-170 in route. Im hoping uts a good replacement for the LEE tl310-170rd mold I haven't been able to buy... :mad:

As a heavy bullet Im gonna try my 311284 HP. (In the 340) @ 210g Im not expecting blazing speed. I'd be thrilled with 1500!!!

Have ya thought of this on? When I read "heavy 30/30" 150g isnt heavy to me...

CW
 
CZ93X62

CZ93X62

Official forum enigma
Ian makes a good point about "Point of diminishing returns" with the 30/30 WCF case. I know in the 308 Winchester (jacketed), that law kicks in HARD at the 180 grain level. The 30-06 is a much better and more flexible cartridge once the bullet weights exceed 180 grains.
 
fiver

fiver

Well-Known Member
weight and speed should be considered with a goal in mind.
deer at 50 yds?
paper at 200?
If you just want weight you can skip all but one smaller lube groove near the base, and a crimp groove.
if you need a smaller diameter in front of the crimp groove don't use a drive band you don't need a big o'l square thing right there anyway.
it isn't that hard to run a truncated cone design for a nose straight out to a 65% meplat.
 
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