Idle thoughts on actual casting methods

Mike W1

Active Member
Might as well stir up the air a bit as I usually end up learning something or another!

I'll confine my thoughts to DC molds as I do believe there's some things about larger molds that would require some different methods than on the smaller ones. I've no experience with brass molds either but understand they seem to require to need to run hotter than aluminum or iron ones do.

Col. Harrison wrote years back about experimenting with aluminum sprue plates and at that time most molds were iron. I've made a few of them and had pretty good results with them finding that they naturally shed some of the heat easier than the steel ones. A number of casters mention using fans to cool the sprue a little faster and I've long since used a combination shelf to rest the molds on and a small fan blowing onto the sprue plate. It has a easily accessible switch which I turn on when I feel the sprue starting to cut a little too easily.

Another caster I notice talks about priming the sprue plate to heat it before filling the mold to get good fill out which seems to be 180° from above. I suspect he's using aluminum molds but don't really know that for sure. To me good fill out of the mold has just indicated that the block itself be up to casting temperature for wrinkle free bullets. I get mine there on a PID controlled hot plate and first bullets out are good. IF....I ensure the lead flows into the center of the sprue hole because if I hit that sprue plate instead of the hole I can predict 99% of the time either the base will have a small void or it won't be fully filled. I noticed that many years ago. And as long as the mold is hot I do not find it necessary to have much of a sizeable sprue. It's a bit hard to control the flow on a Lee 10# as there's obviously a difference in flow volume when the pot is full compared to when it's a lot lower but I've seen a lot of good bullets when the sprue was not much larger than a BB. Usually cast them bigger than that of course and prefer to join the 2 sprues as it's easier to dump them that way.

That's the way things work for me. Don't have anything mold-wise for rifles as I kind of got away from them over the years but steady flow of alloy and center of sprue hole used to work just fine back when I did that kind of casting. Gent on the old CB-L that cast commercially wrote that stuff up much nicer than I ever could do. Like I said with larger molds it's likely that a hotter sprue plate might be necessary than on these smaller ones. First place it would seem to be it'd be hard to center the alloy flow and believe I've read the big gang molds were fed by pouring into some sort of v-trough which fed the cavities. Never seen one used so can't say on that.

Gave up ladels some time after deciding hair shirts weren't comfortable either but have often wondered if you use them in the method of putting the nipple to the mold and rotating if you aren't just maybe ensuring the flow hits the center of the sprue hole anyhow. Think some call that pressure casting and I suppose there's a theoretical advantage there. In fact some math inclined soul awhile back came up with some figures to show just that. But really I don't believe everything I read on the internet either!

But I can learn, and it should be interesting to see what this might stir up!
 

Rick

Moderator
Staff member
Mike, if your happy with the bullets your casting you are absolutely doing it correctly for you.

As with everything casting there are too many ways to skin the cat to count. I bottom poured exclusively for many years but for the last 12 years or so ladle cast exclusively. I don't have and never have had a ladle with the "nipple" on it. I use a Rowell #1 for two cavity small bullets (22 and 6mm) and Rowell #2 for all other molds. My only aiming at a sprue hole is to fill one cavity at a time, I keep pouring to next hole and when all are filled I keep pouring back across the top of the mold letting the excess run off back into the pot.

I'll only differ with your method on one point. Small sprue puddles. Think about it this way, the sprue plate does not have the mass of the mold blocks plus it spends part of it's time sticking out in the air, the sprue plate cools much faster than the blocks. Consistent good bullet bases are as difficult to achieve with a too cool sprue plate as good noses with are on a HP mold with cool HP spuds. Pouring all that extra alloy is keeping the sprue plate at or near the same temp as the mold blocks.

So what I gathered from your comment . . . IF....I ensure the lead flows into the center of the sprue hole because if I hit that sprue plate instead of the hole I can predict 99% of the time either the base will have a small void or it won't be fully filled

Is that the problem with not fully filled or a void on the base isn't that you hit the edge of the hole, it's that your sprue plate isn't hot enough. A too cool sprue plate can cause other fill-out problems also because the sprue plate is actually sucking heat out of the alloy as you pour it into the mold.


As Glen wrote on casting hollow points . . . A hot HP spud is a happy HP spud. Add to that a sprue plate at proper mold casting temp is a happy sprue plate. You can get the sprue plate too hot of course if the sprue takes too long to freeze and that's where the fan comes in handy.

Higher pot temps are not needed to achieve either proper mold casting temp or sprue plate temp. If your pot is 700 degrees and most molds will cast well around +- 400 degrees and your alloy is 300 degrees hotter than the mold keeping a proper mold temp is easy. 300 degrees is well in excess of what it takes to cast great bullets and keep the mold, the sprue plate and the caster happy. It's all about casting tempo and maintaining that heat sweet spot.
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Brad

Benevolent Overlord and site owner
Staff member
Rick convinced me a couple years ago to try a Rowell #2 ladle and my bullet quality jumped a bunch when I listened.
I run my pot at 700 with a PID. I was at 725 but decided to try 700 and never looked back. Less mould over heating and bullet quality is the same. Why add more heat when I don't need it?
I pour into the mould with it at an angle over the pot. This lets excess run right back into the pot. I pour for a 2-3 count once the cavity is full on larger bullets as it ensures good bases.
I clean the edge of the spout on the ladle with a small hunk of paraffin when the stream becomes "filmy" looking instead of a smooth stream.
Once a mould is up to temp it is so easy to find a cadence that keeps it in the happy zone. I sometimes need to slow down a little but it is easy to tell when. I cut spruces as soon as the puddle solidifies but often the bullet bases have a sheen that tells me they aren't as hard as I want before dropping. I then slow the cadence and hold the mould, plate open,with the bases towards my small fan.
When things are going well I get a shiny bullet right from the mould that frosts lily after a few seconds.

In the end it is a matter of finding what works. If we all did things the same it wouldn't be very interesting to discuss, would it?
 

JSH

Active Member
Another good thread subject.
I tried casting with a ladle and it just didn't cooperate with me. So bottom pour is what I do. With that note,I did find that good fluxing practices helped me greatly. I use a 20lb RCBS pot I run it down to 1/2-1/3 full and then reload and let it get back to temp. I found this to reduce culls on bullets greatly, especially anything over 200 grains no matter what caliber.
As to preheating molds. I have a hot plate I made from and old electric skillet. I crank it all the way up and preheat ingots and molds on it. Sprue plates, I have been know to wave a propane torch over the sprue plate before starting a casting session.
I have found some molds and designs to be as picky as the guns they are use in. So I keep notes on what a certain mold seems to like.
Jeff
 

Mike W1

Active Member
Don't know how to best word what I think about sprue plate temperature. My thinking (?) is if an aluminum plate on an iron mould dissipates the heat better and gets good bases like the old Col. claimed then maybe the plate doesn't have to be so hot. Pouring the way I do gets me good bases and I'm not touching the plate with any metal till AFTER the cavity is full anyway. Thus maybe I can get by with smaller sprues because of that. I dunno, just those dang idle observations.

Actually I've never been around a HP mold but assume the pins have to be in the bottom of the mold unless it's some kind of a nose pour and I've not seen one of those either. I don't know many casters around here and the rest of em' are newer at it than I am. Assuming those pins are at the bottom of the mold they'd have to be hot to work but I don't understand how the sprue plate would fit into the scheme of things.

Like you say fellows, we all have to go with what works for us. And I'm sure casting smaller caliber rifle bullets is another ball game. Smallest I cast is for my 9mm. Just came in from tapping a 358429 mold for a TC probe as I'd like to see if it requires a significantly different temperature than my 45 molds. Might have to try it after supper.
 

John

Active Member
I find that I need first to find the casting notebook and follow the notes on what that particular mold needed when I have used it before. I have an RCBS that only gets good fill out when poured starting with the cavity closest to the handle. I have 3 other RCBS molds that could care less. A couple of others need more preheat than some, instead of 10 minutes on the hot plate these need to be on their double that. I have cut down a lot but still have far too many molds, 60+, to remember what works the best for them.
 

KHornet

Well-Known Member
Casting/mold notebook, good idea. Wish I had thought about doing that 50 years
ago instead of relying on memory. Regardless, it is a good idea particularly for
new/beginning casters.
 

John

Active Member
Casting/mold notebook, good idea. Wish I had thought about doing that 50 years
ago instead of relying on memory. Regardless, it is a good idea particularly for
new/beginning casters.
My learning curve on this was rather long as well.
 

Cherokee

Medina, Ohio
I have always kept notes on loads and casting. I too refer to my notes when beginning to cast: alloy, pot setting, preheating, any special technique. I usually start with a heated mold (hot plate), fill with medium flow about 1/2" above the sprue plate, large sprue and wait for hazing of sprue before cutting and dumping, unless notes indicate otherwise. I usually get good bullets from the start...only one mold has defeated me and that one went to Creeker.
 

KHornet

Well-Known Member
Have never had a mold defeat me! I start with furnace as hot as it will go, use hot plate as a start,
dip bottom, of mold in melt for about 30 seconds and start. Normally have decent bullets within the
first 2-3 pourings, and use bullplate.
 

Cherokee

Medina, Ohio
K - my defeat was told in another thread. I just did not get it hot enough, it wanted an inordinate amount of heat from my experience. A learning experience that should not repeat itself...at least in in those specifics.