IPCO Wads

[Axman]

I forgot I had these.
My uncle gave me them 30years ago.
He has them from the 60’s possibly earlier?
Not a bad idea.
Someone else made soft checks I use to see in the hand loader years back.

 

[Bret4207]

They go back into the 30's at least, although that may not be the brand I'm thinking of. Some were graphite, some were a vegetable fiber loaded with a grease substance. I think the idea was to cushion/protect the base and provide more lube. This was when the idea was that the lube was the big failure when it was really overall fit. Of course some of the lube back then was water pump grease...

 

[Axman]

Could be way earlier than I thought.
My uncle was in the Marines during Korea and then an Air Force navigator in Vietnam.
He’s going to be 92 in Feb.

 

[fiver]

i think Acheson is still in business.

 

[358156 hp]

I forgot I had these.
My uncle gave me them 30years ago.
He has them from the 60’s possibly earlier?
Not a bad idea.
Someone else made soft checks I use to see in the hand loader years back.

CF Ventures. I still have most of a box.

 

[JustJim]

IPCO graphite wads go back pre-WWII. I've heard rumors the CF Ventures wax sheets are dental wax; perhaps @Rockydoc would have a better idea.

 

[richhodg66]

"This was when the idea was that the lube was the big failure when it was really overall fit. Of course some of the lube back then was water pump grease..."

My favorite load manual is the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook from the 70s, tends to be my go-to for most things, but throughout the whole thing, they tout always sizing to groove diameter. Talk about a recipe for gas cutting and leading.

I was at a gun show in Wichita about a month ago, an old man who had been an avid handloader was selling off a lot of stuff and I bought a few little things. He had boxes of good cast bullets, which normally I am interested in, but all of them had been dutifully sized and lubed to groove diameter (bunch of good .45-70 bullets, all sized to .457). Had to pass, don't need the aggravation of leading. Bad thing is, someone who doesn't know anything about cast will buy those to load, will just load them like jacketed and get the crappy results we know he will and then the myths about cast bullets will continue to perpetuate in the gun community.

 

[Rockydoc]

IPCO graphite wads go back pre-WWII. I've heard rumors the CF Ventures wax sheets are dental wax; perhaps @Rockydoc would have a better idea.

I don’t know a thing about CF Ventures wax sheets but there are wax sheets sized appropriately 3”x6”x1/8” and in various hardness used in dentistry. I have been retired for years but I expect your dentist could get you some, from real soft to real hard, whatever you need.

 

[358156 hp]

I don’t know a thing about CF Ventures wax sheets but there are wax sheets sized appropriately 3”x6”x1/8” and in various hardness used in dentistry. I have been retired for years but I expect your dentist could get you some, from real soft to real hard, whatever you need.

3"X6" match CF Ventures, but they're maybe 1/16" thick. Hard wax, but slightly sticky and a light reddish orange color.

 

[JustJim]

Thanks Rockydoc! I've always wondered if there was any basis for the rumors about CF Ventures. Their wax sheets work, sort of (don't leave your ammo in a closed pickup cab on a hot summer day and you'll probably be OK). IPCO wads did work nicely, in some applications. I've never had access to a large enough quantity to really explore their potential.

 

[fiver]

probably make all you want with some micro wax and lock smith graphite.

 

[Bret4207]

"This was when the idea was that the lube was the big failure when it was really overall fit. Of course some of the lube back then was water pump grease..."

My favorite load manual is the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook from the 70s, tends to be my go-to for most things, but throughout the whole thing, they tout always sizing to groove diameter. Talk about a recipe for gas cutting and leading.

I was at a gun show in Wichita about a month ago, an old man who had been an avid handloader was selling off a lot of stuff and I bought a few little things. He had boxes of good cast bullets, which normally I am interested in, but all of them had been dutifully sized and lubed to groove diameter (bunch of good .45-70 bullets, all sized to .457). Had to pass, don't need the aggravation of leading. Bad thing is, someone who doesn't know anything about cast will buy those to load, will just load them like jacketed and get the crappy results we know he will and then the myths about cast bullets will continue to perpetuate in the gun community.

What really messes that "size to groove dia." idea up is that 99.9% of guys ASSUME their groove diameter for, say, a 45-70 is .457 or .458, or their 38/357 is .357, etc. Anything 30 cal is .308, right? The smallest I ever sized anything nominally .308 was .309 for a K31! Most of my ".308's" get a .311 and at least one wanted .312's! But you can't tell people that anymore than you can tell them that Bhn is just a number, and that number isn't going to solve any problems.

Well intentioned advice isn't always good advice.

 

[Dusty Bannister]

My experience is that they do work and especially if on a slightly undersized casting or a rough bore. I do not use them frequently, but will use them when I have found them to be beneficial.

Dental wax? A lot of folks say that, but Gene said no. Since Gene was the person providing the CFVentures soft gas checks, I will go with Gene.

 

[CZ93X62]

I can't advise from personal experience, but a wax-based 'soft gas check' likely could seal better than an undersized bullet sidewall against propellant-gas blowby. The late Walt Melander of NEI Handtools believed that to be the cause of most bore leading.

 

[JustJim]

probably make all you want with some micro wax and lock smith graphite.

Sharpe wrote about making wax wads in his Complete Guide (of which I happen to have a spare copy now because there was no way I was leaving it to be thrown away after I skipped lunch for a month to buy my first copy). I dabbled with it a bit, and it is definitely doable if one is so motivated.

I strongly suspect Melander was right about blowby of undersize bullets as a major source of leading: not the sole source, but a major source.

 

[fiver]

well we call it gas cutting and use gas checks now so there's probably sumthin to it.

 

[Bret4207]

And it all comes back to "fit".

 

[358156 hp]

My experience is that they do work and especially if on a slightly undersized casting or a rough bore. I do not use them frequently, but will use them when I have found them to be beneficial.

Dental wax? A lot of folks say that, but Gene said no. Since Gene was the person providing the CFVentures soft gas checks, I will go with Gene.

CF Ventures wax is a real red color. The actual dental wax I've seen has been more of a.... palate pink color. I haven't seen every type of dental wax, but based on my limited exposure to it, this ain't dental wax.

 

[fiver]

throw some black graphite in pink wax and you get a darker color.

 

[Bret4207]

It's funny that a thin wax disc would help seal the bore when lube won't. Another of the myriad tiny variables that can make or break a given loading combination. But then, I've swabbed a rough bore with Lee's Mule Snot, let it dry some and then sort of polished it into the bore and the gun has improved accuracy wise, for a time anyway. I guess it's not so different.