Is the bias against the 9mm Luger finally fading?

Glaciers said:
Don’t forget the Whitworth British Standard system in the UK.
My brother and I used to be into BSA and Norton bikes. I in particular have Whitworth wrenches to work on Lister generators we relied on.

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Oil cap from a SR single cylinder
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And if you own an English car or motorcycle, it will know if you leave home without your Whitworth spanners.
 
Petrol & Powder said:
The difference between the imperial [English] system and the metric system isn’t just numbers and units; it’s a struggle. If you grow up learning one, switching to the other is not simply a matter of numerical conversation. As an American, I think in feet, miles, pounds, Fahrenheit, gallons, etc. I know just enough about the metric system to be dangerous, but I can sort of muddle through metric measurements if I’m forced to. It’s not that I don’t understand the metric system (it’s pretty easy), it’s that I don’t think in metric terms.

I’ve seen that struggle from both sides of the argument, and I will not throw stones at that struggle. And it REALLY doesn’t help that in the world of firearms, we mix the two systems and there are no rules concerning the naming of cartridges. 10mm Auto and .40 S&W?, 38 Special and .357 Magnum? 32 ACP and 7.65 Browning? .30-06 and .308 Winchester use the same 7.62mm bullet. The British like to use bore diameter in place of groove diameter…..arrrgh.

The 9mm Parabellum bullet is .355” in diameter and roughly 8 grams or 124 grains, give or take a little.

Glaciers – I’m with you.
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P&P, I understand the thing about not thinking in metric. But it is not as hard as it seems. Once you get immersed into it, it becomes easier. It is like studying a foreign language, once you start dreaming in(German, French, Russian) etc. you are over the hump, so to speak.
Imagine not ever having to deal with fractions again. That’s the beauty of the metric system. I had to learn the metric system in college and dental school. I wish the US would join the rest of the world and convert to metric. Not many of us here on this forum will ever see that, I’m afraid. It would be COSTLY! I think that is the main reason why it hasn’t been done already.
 
Well Doc, The U.S. Government attempted to force the metric system on the people back in the 1970's and it didn't go over well. In fact, there was downright hostility.

Everything you wrote was accurate but that independent spirit that helped to form this country is still strong. I’m sure there would be advantages to switching over, but Americans don’t like to be told what to do.

The metric system is used in a lot of areas within the U.S., such as science, medicine, a lot of the military, some trade and other areas. But despite some big users, there are holdouts as well.
 
If you want to do business with the rest of the world then you got to use the SI system. Period.
 
I have worked with both for a long time and don't have issues with either. Digitalization has made the the transition between the two fairly simple. Where the benefit of SI is significant is in science and engineering. For example, acceleration of 1 Kg at 1M/s is a newton, measure of force, F=Ma. Then moving 1 newton one Meter is a joule, measure of work. Doing a joules worth of work in 1 second is a watt, measure of power. Volts times amps = watts. And so on. Sure we all remember that 1 horsepower equals 550 ft.-lbs./s, but SI is less reliant on arbitrary factors. There is some arbitrariness in SI, the 0-100C scale for temperature between freezing and boiling of water for example. The decimalization inherent in SI also avoids arbitrary factors. What is arbitrary in SI is the naming of the derived units after scientists.
 
Petrol & Powder said:
I went through the same giant push to adopt the metric system. That attempt to convert Americans failed miserably. The push back against that was nothing short of amazing. And despite claims to the contrary, some countries didn’t really totally embrace the metric system either (The UK).

From a reloading viewpoint, I learned the imperial system, which made perfect sense to me, particularly the hundredths of an inch measurements. But in the general sense of firearms, I was able to switch back and forth between metric and imperial. For example, I sort of instinctively knew that 7mm was really about .284”, even though that works out to about 7.2mm. And when I look at a 9mm, my mind sees that as roughly .357”.

From an automotive viewpoint, there was this weird blending of imperial and metric that JeffH talks about. Prior to about the early 1980’s(?) if you didn’t work on foreign cars, you could get by with SAE tools. Metric tools weren’t unknown, and in fact, many mechanics had them, but they weren’t as common. Then the two systems blended and now you need complete sets of both imperial and metric tools.

When I travel, I struggle with Kilometers, KPH and Celsius. I know that 23C is roughly 73F and 0C = 32F, and I just guess at everything in between. Single digits Celsius is getting a bit cool and above 30 is getting hot.
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And thus... That Bullcrap attempt to convert the USA to fully metric...

A BIG REASON for the BIAS that made this topic, IMO..


You know it, I think. Nothing worse than as you(P&P) & others relate. It is & was BS,IMO.

Having to go get a Metric set to work on things, particularly in the middle of something you were trying to accomplish when ya had other things ya wanted to do upon an evening or on a weekend...
The having to go get a metric set ( or the dreaded chasing the particular socket/whatever to work on something after 5 trips to the store because something was Metric instead of the old school SAE...... :headbang: Grrr.. just to work on some vehicle in the "old School" backyard/shade tree mechanic style to change some spark plugs, points & condenser, or even a simple Oil change or the like. OKay.. I will stop ranting.)

Yep... I am working on the bias. Maybe it is just the age thing... the foreign MM VS SAE things from long ago that helps to continue the issue(s)....

Un-necessary complication of life, "may"(most likely) have/has a bit to do with it. I am betting it is a big part of it. My opinion of course...

YMMV

JBinMN is a pretty bonifide, confirmed curmudgeon/Luddite when it comes down to it. Speaking for myself of course.
;)
 
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Micro
Milli
Centi
Deci
Kilo
Deka
Heca or is it hecta
Prefixes for everything.
Nobody uses those above kilo and rarely ever deci .
Meter , metre
Liter,litre

Then of course theres the CC for volume as in Centimeters³ but also liquid as centiliters³ . Liters also express displacement that exceed 999 centimeters³ .

1 liter is just over a quart and short of 60 CID see 5 liters as 302-305 cid .
1 kilogram is 2.2 lbs 40oz ><.
A 750 ml is roughly 4/5 quart 1.75 ml is short of a half gallon.

There's also a failure between milligrams and micrograms because the professionals fail to use mmg properly .

Pressure and torque seems to be an issue with in the metric system too I don't even know the conversion rate for Newton meters. Then there's kilos per meter I guess . Energy is in Jules which makes perfect sense in a system served by kilos per sq cm .........

B.A.R. 1050 is equal to 15,000 PSI and is in metric use .
 
Having a hard time picturing John Wayne telling some punk: "OK, pilgim, move a muscle and I'll plug you with my 11.25mm Colt!"
 
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If you are really into obscure measuring systems, the Imperial Japanese Navy used their own system seperate from any other Japanese system or any other known system in the world.

At that time, the greatest part of Japan was on the metric system.
 
KeithB said:
If you want to do business with the rest of the world then you got to use the SI system. Period.
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True, but Americans resisted the metric system at home.

I wonder if we had used the name 38 Auto for the 9mm in the U.S, and named the actual 38 Auto something else, if that would have helped. Sort of like what we did with the 380 Auto which is the 9mm Browning Court or 9mm Kurz in other parts of the world.
 
Imperial gallon vs. US gallon. Dry measure vs. liquid, a dry cup is not the same as a fluid cup, close though. Gills, pecks, and bushels and troy vs. avoirdupois, rather poetic I think. Pennyweights, scruples, drams, link, rod, yard, chain, furlong, statute, nautical and leagues. And then there are slugs, don't get me started on slugs. Carats; what's up doc?

I do like the study of measurement, the history of it all is very interesting. When Interstate 19, between Tucson and Nogales, was built the bureaucrats were very proud that it would be signed in meters, kilometers, and kilometers per hour. Road signs, distance markers (aka milepost;)), and speed limits. All gone now, or mostly. When the speed limit was increased to 75 mph in the state they did not use the ~equivalent 120 kph, because they worried that drivers would think that they were on the autobahn. But I was only going 110 officer!

Interesting that the Germans took to the metric system devised by the despised French.
 
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