I've heard a rumour about a 218 Bee

[RBHarter]

I don't recall ever seeing it but I suspect it may have been an estate gift a couple of times over to my Dad , but I don't know that . What I do know is Dad only had one lever gun a JM 1895C in 357 that I gave him as rent for an A5 Magnum .....
Moving along . That means that it is a bolt gun and it may have been a gun smiths tinker piece . I have a 222 , & 223 so a cool little 22CF that will turn down to angry 22 mag and up to 200 yd coyote popper fills no space other than cool factor . What I know about the cartridge is probably in bold print on a bottle cap . It's surprisingly fast for it's capacity , brass is not particularly available , stretch is said to be a problem .
I think I can probably find some Win or Starline even if I have to start with something else like 32-20(?) or 25-20 . I'm comfortable with eliminating the stretch with a heavy bolt closure the first time .

So regale me with your tales of the 219 Bee , good , bad , crushed cases , poor bullet choices , cast suggestions , how Pop Pop killed that moose back in 46' .

 

[uncle jimbo]

Don't own one but I have studied about them a little. If it is a bolt action rifle, it is probably a Winchester model 43. maybe a Sako L-46. Not sure if others made rifles for the caliber. As you probably know it shoot a common .224 bullet, so that won't be a problem. The brass is going to be a problem. The parent case is 32-20 necked down to .224 size. Starline makes 32-20 case still so you can get them and neck them down. I have a 25-20, and to find brass for it is next to impossible. So you will probably be necking down 32-20. The cases are thin walled and crush easy when trying to neck them down. Expect a 20 to 25 % failure rate until you get it figured out. And as you know , you can get some decent velocity from them. With jacketed bullets you can get up to 3200 fps with a 35 gr bullet. With a 50gr. bullet, 2650 fps.
If nothing else it will be a fun experience getting up and usable to your liking.

 

[uncle jimbo]

You got my curiosity up, so I went looking for 218 brass, there are places that sell it. As brass goes, it is expensive. about $38.00 plus or minus for 50.

 

[smokeywolf]

uncle jimbo is right on the money re: the price of 218 BEE brass. You can neck 32-20 down, but you'll spend some money on dies and should allow for a 10% scrap rate.

218 Bee is very fun cartridge and mucho fun on tree-rats, prairie-dogs and the like. Saw my father use one to shoot a buzzard out of a tree at approx 50 yards. Caliber size entrance wound, other side of the bird was mostly missing with body cavity cleaned out as perfectly as if a surgeon had done it.
Yes, with proper placement a yote out to maybe 110 yards. Beyond that, I'd have some worries for a humane kill.

My opinions are based on shooting this cartridge in a Model 65 Winchester lever action.

 

[fiver]

I would double check the rim thickness.
the 25-20 and 32-20 have different rim thicknesses. [25 being thicker]
probably done so that the 25-20 round wouldn't chamber in the 32-20 rifles.
last brass I seen was Winchester and it was all gone from the bin in 3 days , with no rifle in the store.

a little trick I picked up for these older thin skinned cases.
make sure you round the case mouth out before running them through the size die.
I use a pair of needle nose pliers on/in every case whether it looks like it needs it or not, a slow steady controlled hand on the press handle is a must.

 

[dromia]

I just love the little 218 Bee. Cases are scarce especially this side of the pond so I treasure the ones I have, they are 12 times fired now and still going strong, I do anneal every three or four firings now just to keep them sweet.

See post No. 16.

 

[RBHarter]

Wow ! I'm drooly . I'll have to see what it is as time progresses .
I just don't remember one .
I remember my uncle having a 25-20 and may have had the 218 also and complaining that there wasn't much if any ammo , 15 years or so ago . I looked it up then and announced that it was a simple thing no harder than 22-250 from 308 or 7×57 from 06' . It would have been like my Dad to buy it as a project for us to work out when we weren't building a house/remodel , restoring a 56' f100 or 59 Ranchero etc after I retired .......... Didn't go quite according to plan . Anyway what ever it is it's either a foot deep finish with Carlo Walnut and rosewood or ebony tips or plain as a mud fence . In either case it'll be as common as Mausers and copies or something completely off the wall like an Australian Cadet in a Mannlicher stock be cause there was nothing he ever bought or did that didn't fit into those pigeonholes .

 

[uncle jimbo]

RBHarter, go get some pictures. You have my curiosity up and you know that inquiring minds need to know.













rbhe

 

[Eutectic]

This thread is delving in an area where I've spent a lot of time and experience! I'm talking the case forming part from Starline brass. I think I've done over 2000 .25-20's from Starline .32-20 even some nickel plated ones ( 500 of them when that was all that I could get) Some .218 Bee to check for neck thickness as my buddy has one..... Seems getting to .25-20 is the part many have trouble with. Two things cause the rejects 1. rushing things too much, too fast 2. Not starting with a perfect case and neck opening!. You should get no rejects done right unless the case is flawed from the start.

Speculation will tell you this is a piece of cake..... just run it in the .25-20 sizer first then the .218 Bee second.... Yeah right...

I developed a method on a temporary basis as reform die sets are $$$$$$$ !! Everyone has a .270 Win die set right. The .270 neck diameter is a good first step. But how? No only how but straight and concentric? You know by now I'm a fussy old guy about the quality of my formed cases. It's too labor intensive to make junk!
I took a .270 case sized in my die and cut it off to 1.655" long. Then I took a fired de-primed .223 case and shortened it. I don't have that dimension as mine is pressed in but you need the head to be 3/8" down into the outer case. Expand the shortened .223 case to be a press fit in. Bottom it to the .270 base floor. A .32-20 case will go into this 3/8" deep area with nil rim clearance and hold sizing straight! I use a 6.5-06 sizer next but others have went right to .25-20... Multiple steps are always the best...... adjust to have shoulder a few thousandths long and neck anneal case before finishing at .25-20. I took the .218 Bee to .24 (6mm Rem) and .218 die last.

This 'temporary' process works so well I still use it! The neck expander is out of the die and a rod and hammer to eject the case is the only inconvenience.

Formed right..... Starline .32-20 brass makes better brass than you can buy done right even if you could find it.

Saami lists all rim thicknesses the same (.218 Bee. .25-20 WCF and .32-20) as .065" - '010" My experience shows this correct with most brands a couple under the .065"...... I had one batch of .25-20 WW that was over at .067"-.068". It was fine in all but my Contender barrel which is minimum headspace. I form all rimmed bottleneck cases to fit the shoulder datum line even if rimmed.

Pete

 

[RBHarter]

I will try to get a look at it Thursday .

With any sort of luck brass forming won't be needed when I get everything sorted out . If it is I'm sure I'll be back to review the forming processes ...... probably right after I mangle a half a dozen or so . I haven't looked to hard at the cases etc but I do have a couple of short cartridges a 6.8 , 256 win ..... I wonder if you can push the shoulder with a 30 Mauser , 7.62 Tok . I'll have to see what else I have around for stepping stones I do have a die with a neck in every step in between .

 

[KHornet]

Always wanted a Bee as a companion to my K

Paul

 

[Rick]

Have never had a 218 Bee but did have a 218 Mashburn Bee in a Bullberry 14 inch Contender barrel, turned ground squirrels into a red mist at 100 yards. The Mashburn version is the taper removed and shoulder blown forward.

 

[RBHarter]

Well all for not ........
Turned out to be a 917VS Savage ........ 17 HMR . Darnit anyway .

 

[uncle jimbo]

Well all for not ........
Turned out to be a 917VS Savage ........ 17 HMR . Darnit anyway .

Now that is a bummer.

 

[fiver]

not if your squirrel shooting out to 100 yds it ain't.

 

[skeet1]

At one time I did have a Winchester Model 43 .218 Bee. A great little gun I had some brass that was given to me that had stretched already and when I started shooting it they came apart and I quickly threw the rest away and got some new brass. With the new brass the stretching was not so bad as long as I would just neck size. In an old Hornady Handbook Vol. II It showed some loads for BL-C2 which I already had. BL-C2 is not a optimal powder for the Bee as far as velocity is concerned but accuracy in my rifle was very good with 50 gr. jacketed bullets. I tried a Lyman cast bullet but was never very satisfied with it. Hope you have fun with you rifle.

Ken

 

[Hawk]

Dad had a 218 Bee that he let go of.
Talked about and regretted it the rest of his life.
I looked for another for years at gun shows and never found one.

 

[don3]

Have a marlin and a Browning Lever gun in 218, a lot of fun. Use cast boolits. Ammo is very expensive, $85.00 per 50 so reloading is the way to go.

 

[CZ93X62]

No time-in-grade with the 218 Bee, but LOTS of experience with the 25/20 WCF. I lucked into what is likely a lifetime supply of 25/20 brass at a Boise gun show about 5-6 years ago--450 pieces of new W-W for $50, in plastic cartridge boxes. SNAGGED.

 

[don3]

That's a hell of a deal. The trouble with stuff like 218 or 25-20 is not only the price but you just can't find it. I also shoot the 348 Win. Try finding that!