Lee seating die issue

[Mitty38]

My .357 is smashing the noses flat on the 358311 bullets I just cast.
Seams like seater stem matches a wad cutter type bullet.
These are kind of soft(12 bh) and no powder coating.
I am getting. A little flat spot right on the nose. I had loaded round nose PC at a out 14 bh, one time with this die and got very minor marking. But did not seam to hurt anything
I am using a 4 die set and giving plenty of flare. So no crimping during seating.
Still having an issue.
Should I not worry about it as long as it is consistent? Or should I try to make another stem? I do not want to mess with this one as it loads all other bullets I use without issue.
Or is there a trick or some kind to temporarily modified the seating die? Like make a short extension, adapter
out of wood or something?

 

[Ian]

Hot glue.

 

[fiver]

that's a lot of push if the seater is smushing the tip, but you pushing them through a size die didn't.
just as a reference maybe measure the inside of a case and see what your dealing with.

anyway hot glue works, if you lube up the nose of a bullet and push it in place.

 

[Spindrift]

The stem in the Lee seating dies are loose, and can be oriented in either direction. I have never seen a .357- die. But the stems in my (rifle) dies have one flat, and one concave end. I would start with checking how the stem is oriented, if you haven’t done that.

 

[Mitty38]

The stem of the 357 carbide 4 die set, has a short T shaped stem, that sets up in the seating thumb nut. Not like the long straight stem the rifle does. The top is definitely top. Can not put it in upside down.
I took the seating stem out and checked it. The end that seats is definitely not perfectly concave, rounded, it is shaped reverse of a semi wad cutter.
I know I am seating them a bit tight. If I pull a seated .359 bullet it measures at .3585 with a micrometer. So there is some smush. To the point of a just barely visible bulge. But my gun likes it that way.
I have done this with over a thousand, other cast bullet. Of various designs. With great results.
I seated other styles, with the same set of dies, the same size in the same brass, same press. But never had an issue with printing with any other style nose, but this one. Plus I seated a couple SWC the same length, in the same lot of brass, the same size,same seating depth. Just to check, and make sure they had not work hardened, were under flared, our something. No issues
Think I will try the hot glue trick. Thanks Ian, fiver.

 

[CWLONGSHOT]

Sounds like allptt if neck tension whats the dia on the case after flair? Lee dies dont offer friendly cast seating. (Most dont) but NOE has inserts that can fit the LeE dies solving this.

Yes, modifying the seater stems can help allot.

CW

 

[Jeff H]

My .357 is smashing the noses flat on the 358311 bullets I just cast.
....

Heck, I'd trade ya! Mine rounds the crisp edges of all my FNs and swages out an over-sized annular bulge on my fill wadcutters such that it get shaved by the transition from the chamber's case diameter to the "ball seat" in my carbine barrel.

Haven't had time to contact LEE to see if there's an alternate I can buy yet, because the last two calls yielded as much help as you get from any other "support" entity these days.

The stem in mine is made for a round-nose bullet.

 

[Dimner]

I had a lee 223 seating die that put a half bevel on all the jacketed soft points I put through it. I used their online customer service form to fill out the details and I had new parts shipped within a few days. No need to talk to anyone. They are very good like that. Also used the same system for my hand prime when the link broke.

I dont mind calling people, but sometimes I just don't have the time to call during buisness hours. So the form works great in that regard.

 

[JonB]

So, Lee makes different sets for 38 spl and 357 Mag.
While I have both, I am not where I can easily look at the seaters. I am thinking the 38 set has a full concave seater stem and the 357 has the SWC stem. If so, just order one from Lee or Titan or FSreloading. ALSO, it seems like I read somewhere (probably Ian or Fiver), about a DIY Lee pistol seater stem using a spent cartridge of the correct size and fill with epoxy to form nose shape. I've never done it, because I am not that picky about my pistol ammo. Now IMHO, Lee's Rifle bullet seating dies are the worst, when it comes to seating a cast rifle bullet, especially if there is a large meplat. I've switched to all Forster/Bonanza BR seater dies for Rifle.

 

[Jeff H]

I think I'll try hot glue, but also take a look at LEE's online CS order. Last time, someone at LEE sent me a link to it that didn't work, but maybe if I just go find it myself...

@JonB , my LEE rifle cartridge seaters don't mess up my flat-nose rifle bullets at all, but maybe because I use so little neck tension in comparison to pistol bullets. I've noticed that the PC'd bullets are harder to seat and literally squeak when being seated. Obviously other issues to resolve there, which would probably also resolve the deformation problem - possibly.

The longer I cast, the dumber I feel, and that progressive dumbness has progressed since the early seventies, so I'm way behind from when I didn't know enough to know I didn't know it all.

Sure is fun though!

 

[JonB]

@JonB , my LEE rifle cartridge seaters don't mess up my flat-nose rifle bullets at all, but maybe because I use so little neck tension in comparison to pistol bullets. I've noticed that the PC'd bullets are harder to seat and literally squeak when being seated. Obviously other issues to resolve there, which would probably also resolve the deformation problem - possibly.

I'm not specifically speaking of deforming the bullet, but they do that too. Mainly I am concerned with poor runout, and I get that issue with Lee rifle bullet seaters and cast rifle bullets. The stems are a sloppy fit, I suppose they are designed that way to best orient the bullet in a wiggle-waggle-wobble method, but the Alloy and the sharp edge of the meplat seems to grab the seater stem and hold the bullet in a crooked manner (this is only concerning cast bullets that aren't PC'd.) This doesn't happen with all my cast rifle bullets, and polishing and lubing the Lee seater stem seemed to help. I just decided to go a better direction with a better die.

 

[Dimner]

Curiously, what/who do you all feel has the best seating die design for cast bullets? Both PC and non.

I've tried hornady and they always leave a ring on the nose of bullets. I can't remember if i have tried RCBS, but so far lee is what I have been using. And JonB, I agree I don't feel very confident with the Lee's when it comes to fully negating runout. Never had all problem getting good enough for hunting accuracy. However, I'd like to try a die that does better.

Now that I think of it, I think neck tension is how I have mitigated runout to the point I cannot detect it with the roll test. Also I spin the cartridge and only seat a 32nd of an inch or so at a time. In bulk loading this is very tedious.

 

[JonB]

I haven't tried many, so I don't know about others. A decade ago, I bought a Forster/Bonanza BR seater on recommendation, after I had horrible runout with 222 rem and the RD 50gr RF in a Lee die, (also the 22 Hornet and the 22 Bator.) I really like the design of the Forster/Bonanza BR seater and the results in those two combos convinced me I needed to replace every rifle seater in my collection, whether needed or not.

 

[Mitty38]

My set was marketed as 357/ 38 special combo. To do 357 you just turn the sizing die down another turn and a half. The dies are even marked 357/38.

Lee says have them make an other or take a 3/32 bit to the center to relieve the contact point on the nose a bit.
Since I have no issues with any other bullets. I can't see going thru much trouble, buying this and that, for one that I have not even developed a load for yet. Especially a pistol round .
So going to try hot glue when I get a chance.

 

[462]

Curiously, what/who do you all feel has the best seating die design for cast bullets? Both PC and non.

First, I don't paint bullets . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . yet.

Second, for both cast and jacketed bullets in bottle neck cartridges, I've come to favor Forster bench rest seater dies.

Third, all my cast rifle bullet seating dies have hot melt glue form-fitted seating stems, as do all the Lyman lube/sizer top punches.

 

[CWLONGSHOT]

Curiously, what/who do you all feel has the best seating die design for cast bullets? Both PC and non.

I've tried hornady and they always leave a ring on the nose of bullets. I can't remember if i have tried RCBS, but so far lee is what I have been using. And JonB, I agree I don't feel very confident with the Lee's when it comes to fully negating runout. Never had all problem getting good enough for hunting accuracy. However, I'd like to try a die that does better.

Now that I think of it, I think neck tension is how I have mitigated runout to the point I cannot detect it with the roll test. Also I spin the cartridge and only seat a 32nd of an inch or so at a time. In bulk loading this is very tedious.

Dimmer look into RCBS Cowboy dies.

Redding and Lyman also make excellent expander dies better suited to cast bullets.

CW

 

[Mitty38]

Dimmer look into RCBS Cowboy dies.

Redding and Lyman also make excellent expander dies better suited to cast bullets.

CW

When it came to small caliber rifle.
A good NEO expander die insert for a Lee. Was more of a gain for me then any move Tward accuracy I had- have made.
Of course my Reading 2 die set for the 06 gave me acceptable accuracy right off the bat.

 

[Bret4207]

I own Lee, RCBS, Lyman, CH, Redding, Herters and probably a few other makes. I can't say one is better than another because jacketed or cast, if you get the wrong (right?) bullet style and enough neck tension most of them will at least mark the nose somewhat. I've got a seater, I think it's a Lyman maybe, that will sort of put a ring on the nose of some jacketed bullets. Not a big one, but it's noticeable. Even FN designs tend to get marked if the neck is tight enough.

The hot melt glue sounds like an easy fix.

 

[Ian]

ALSO, it seems like I read somewhere (probably Ian or Fiver), about a DIY Lee pistol seater stem using a spent cartridge of the correct size and fill with epoxy to form nose shape. I've never done it, because I am not that picky about my pistol ammo. Now IMHO, Lee's Rifle bullet seating dies are the worst, when it comes to seating a cast rifle bullet, especially if there is a large meplat. I've switched to all Forster/Bonanza BR seater dies for Rifle.

The epoxy putty/spent cartridge case trick was me, thanks for reminding me. Fired and unsized .44 Maggot brass is perfect for the .45 ACP seating die, just make sure the case mouth is trimmed squarely. Not sure what would fit the .357 set.

Lee rifle seating dies are useful only for modifying into other things. Absolutely useless for seating bullets. I too have switched entirely to the Forster in-line dies and opine that they are the best 7/8"x14 threaded dies of their type available. Hornady's in-line wannabe in-line dies are a joke. The RCBS benchrest seating dies aren't any great shakes, either.

 

[fiver]

i got a lot of plain green boxes kicking around the shelf.
i also seem to have a bunch of Dillon pistol dies, i kind of like their flip over seater design, it's at least close to the nose shape of the bullet.
but if you open those green boxes on the shelf your gonna find a mishmash of different dies and a little slip of note paper with directions written on it.