Let Me Tell Ya What I've learned in 10 Years Since I Quit Posting

[Bass Ackward]

Hmmmm …… Ahhhh ….... See …...

Well, now that that's outta the way, I can summarize & probably upset some folks. First, shootin's fun. Second, don't cause any problems, which you will. AND last, learn to solve the one's you create. THERE, WHEW! 10 whole years. Otherwise you will NEED to enter …. "the education zone". And that's bad because it causes false paths & parting with BIG dollars today. You just KNOW WHAT'S commin. We all do, we just get too involved with details losing sight of the big picture. AND …. then we become biased.

1. Bullet designs can solve problems …. or not. The best bullet design is? Nope, don't wanna lose everybody on the first one. People pride themselves on this issue and knowledge of it & develop biases here that will go to their grave more than any other subject. I know I sure did & wasted a lot of money in the process.
2. The best bullet lube is? Ain't one. Not a lot of loyalty either. Lube works unless it either A. breaks down and lets the bullet seal. (gall) or B. it's too persistent & causes hydraulic sizing. (lube sizes the bullet down allowing pressure to …. pass the slug, fliers) OMG cut rifling is so freeing!
3. The hated, detested, gas check, and I prefer base protector against me & the gun, is the cheapest, money saving thing about "quality" cast bullet reloading & "flexible" shooting. (before you spit your coffee at the monitor, I didn't say most accurate) It's CHEATING in a little cup. And the hilarious thing is what avoiding it will make "US" do & the BIG dollars we will hand over for the privilege.

Yep, waste time, expensive metals, molds / bullet designs, energy costs from HTing, over belling brass, (which ain't cheap anymore), gun favoritism, (how many are sold cause they won't shoot PB ) (Or have massive bucks spent on improvements or fire lapping) lube or …. wait for it ….. WAIT FOR IT …. lube AVOIDANCE, velocity limitation (powder isolation) or range time, cleaning both time & materials, multiple sizers & dies, fake GC tools & the list just goes on. But we don't add up THOSE costs when we consider the "expensive" GC. Besides saving MASSIVE bucks, GC use would eliminate 30% of all topics / discussions. Ever notice some long time posters NEVER have problems / failures? (CHEATERS) Cut rifling barrels would eliminate 50%. Leaving the board with, how did I "F" up the last (easiest) 20%? And trust me, that 20% still shows on a target as a failure.

Why am I back? I WANT THE SCIENCE! "THE" ANSWER! I just KNOW you guys are hiding it from me. And I'M gonna FIND IT! I want THE BADGE. Yea, I shoot PB. Sad when you think that's 10 years worth, huh? But it's been fun.

 

[Bret4207]

"Hydraulic sizing"? Oh great, you stick your head up outta the hidy hole for the first time in 10 years and within a week you come up with a concept I'd never even considered before!!! Drat, drat and double drat!!!!!

 

[RBHarter]

I probably found THE 30 cal bullet ,but no point giving up the search now .

Besides how do we know if THE bullet is the one if we don't try it in at least 5 of every action , make , and barrel form .

Gas checks ....... I shot a bunch of stuff without them . Figured out a formula that works for me about 95% . I put off gas checks for a long , long time . The straighter the case is the less you need them .

In order to get a lube film on any thing there has to be a clearance to put the film in . So if we stick a plug in a hole that's a hard press fit with slickum' to make that film something has to give , it isn't all about the pores in the metal . We do everything we can to fill and close them at every turn .

No substitute for trigger time and attention to the whole picture .
I see shooting and shooting cast like a Monet' painting . Stand back a little ways and there's a beautiful scene , get to close and obsessed with the minutiae details and its a disjointed mass of blobs , chaos and confusion . Without the close up mess there's no beauty in the finished product ........... Everybody wants 4k mega pixel product but doesn't want to learn about the blobs , and can't see that a pixel is just another blob of chaos until it makes a picture .

Top 10 deepest comparative thoughts ever . Well for me anyway .

 

[Jeff H]

I can't say I'm not guilty of any of those, but I am at least conscious of most of them. Seeing the ideas organized and well articulated makes one realize just how guilty one is without having previously dwelt on it.

I can say that I am not too terribly hung up on gas checks. I got over that one some time ago. I bought tooling from Charles Darnell for .22, .30 and .35 caliber gas checks and enough coil stock from Gil to last me forever. I prefer plain-base where I can get away with it, but I won't fight it if I can't. I don't actually need them in any of my handguns, so that narrows it down too.

So, I'm something somewhat superior on at least one point, right?

Well, maybe I'm extra especially bad about a few other points which negate the value of what I perceive to be my strong points. I've sold off anything (rifle) not .22, .30 or .35 for cast. I've moved guns which wouldn't shoot cast as well as I wanted. In fact, I spent about ten years looking for the perfect cheap and simple "homestead rifle" I could use for 99% of anything I needed to do, but bought/sold off over a half dozen rifles/carbines and ended up with a model which cos over twice what the original gun was suppose to cost. I used up a lot of money on powder and primers testing all the candidates out, which wasn't cheap,.... but at least I was shooting.

Now to work on all those other deficiencies........

 

[RicinYakima]

Guilty of all of them, and loving it! I'm perfect, except when I'm not.

 

[Cherokee]

I could not list everything I've learned over the past 10 years, nor summarize like you did. I'll say this, I've been having fun shooting CB's in rifle and pistol.

 

[Brad]

Shooting to test things quickly becomes like work. After a period the fun is gone and it becomes a chore.
I have decided that fun is paramount.

The main thing I have learned in the past 10 years is that no one single answer exists. There are multiple ways to solve the problem and each solution is unique unto itself.

I learned to cast and load from Khornet. We often use very different approaches yet we each seem to find success. Proved to me that as long as what I am doing meets my needs then I have found A solution. Why keep looking?

 

[fiver]

you umm know there is 2 different types of lubrication.
the boundary layer and the shear force layer, they are both the same layer,,,,, just one is under stress.

funny you should mention the lube leaving a layer that makes the bullet smaller [snicker] I know another 'dude' that believes that is exactly what happens only because it's an affront to some others that can't respond to his allegations.

 

[Rick]

Why keep looking?

Wow really Brad? So the answer is to just stop learning? Really? What's next, what if, how come is still what inspires me. Oh well, I guess if your happy with why keep looking all is good. For you.

 

[Ian]

Bass, I learned a lot more about the workings of people on the old boards than I did about cast bullets, and that's saying something because I learned a lot about cast bullets. Picking up tips and things to try next, trying them, returning to ask questions and repeating the process is a fast track to the same place most of us end up if we do this long enough....realizing we still don't know Jack and the most meaningful answers are found at our own shooting ranges. Well, we do know Jack, but he isn't always helpful when trying to sort out the next gun.

I know one person who claims that success with cast bullets is nothing more than implementing simple techniques and is all a matter of science. Unfortunately, only two or three people in recorded history have been able to learn it from him, so it must not be as scientific and methodical as claimed.

Wanna shoot cheap? No gas checks? No extra tin in your alloy? Like using cheap range scrap alloy? Do you like cheating? Are you sick of dealing with the infinite variable which is bullet lube? If so, then dive into the rabbit hole of powder coating. PC is on thing which IS simple and cheap to do, with an established technique, and predictable results. Add gas checks to rifle bullets and shoot them at full power, with nearly jax accuracy, in regular old factory or military rifles.

Another thing I learned is don't paint yourself into a corner with knowledge because Jack is a moving target. One small example of that: https://www.artfulbullet.com/index.php?threads/it-shouldnt-work-but-it-does.1311/

 

[fiver]

I think I have got there a few times but not really the same way.
just,,, well,,, just using a different bullet in the same rifle doesn't fall in line with what the last one did and another set of circumstances needs to be ferreted out.
yeah,,, it seems I can shift that ammo over to another rifle and get similar results but not exactly at the same level of accuracy [sometimes it's even better]
that alone makes it hard for me to try and talk someone through the process, I plain can't see their expectations,results [based on previous shooting] nor the rifle in question.
about all I can really do is point them down the path and maybe give council on what I tried that worked in a particular instance for me.
maybe what didn't work for me is the right answer for them.
all I really know is there isn't a right or a wrong way to get there, but if your persistent you'll eventually find a path.

 

[Brad]

Wow really Brad? So the answer is to just stop learning? Really? What's next, what if, how come is still what inspires me. Oh well, I guess if your happy with why keep looking all is good. For you.

Why keep looking an answer to that specific problem. Find a good load for 9mm? Load up a bunch and just shoot. Why try more bullets, powders, and all when you have something that works. Once you settled on an alloy that worked did you keep trying other alloys or just use the one that worked?
Move on to the next problem. Lord know there are always more.

 

[Rick]

Sure in a specific gun with a specific load but dang, so many molds, so many guns. Just keep looking, that's where the intrigue and fun is at for me. No need to stop looking.

 

[Brad]

I’m always looking at new loads for new guns. I find that by settling on a single load for the existing ones that I have time for the new ones.
I’m a mould poor guy. I don’t use many because I find something that works for me and stick with it,
I have nothing against those who use lots of loads or moulds, that just doesn’t fit my time and budget needs.
Sometimes it is a matter of time and money. As a retiree Paul often traded time to save money. I often traded money to save time. We each focused on what we had the least of and made up for it with the other,

 

[Jeff H]

.........Wanna shoot cheap? No gas checks? No extra tin in your alloy? Like using cheap range scrap alloy? Do you like cheating? Are you sick of dealing with the infinite variable which is bullet lube? If so, then dive into the rabbit hole of powder coating. PC is on thing which IS simple and cheap to do, with an established technique, and predictable results. Add gas checks to rifle bullets and shoot them at full power, with nearly jax accuracy, in regular old factory or military rifles.....................

My own personal answer to this is an emphatic NO, I DON'T want to eliminate all the traditionally vexing issues.

I'm still having plenty of fun working through them and, I'm a little bit on Brad's side about "fun." If I get too serious about all this, it becomes too much like work. I don't mind bumbling about in the dark a bit. PC intrigues me, and one day when I get bored with the old ideas, I might try it. Right now, I really like the challenge of making mongrel alloy work in production guns.

Thank you for tossing that one out there, Ian. If that's not where you were going, my apologies.

I learned one thing a long time ago, which is sort of related, that I don't have to have a rational reason to to shoot the 6.5x55 SE instead of the 308 Winchester, or recurves instead of one of today's compound bows. I don't have to prove my choice is inherently better. I am not making this assertion to others, but to ME. I can be honest with myself about rationalizing and it has freed me from coming up with good come-backs and "proof." I want to see how well I can do within self-imposed limits and not wasting time making excuses let me really start learning.

To be honest, this is the first group of people with whom I feel comfortable just being honest about such things without unintentionally kicking the lid off Pandora's Box, which is full of cans-'o-worms with loosely-fitted lids, over-used kitty litter and untended diaper buckets.

 

[Brad]

To be honest, this is the first group of people with whom I feel comfortable just being honest about such things without unintentionally kicking the lid off Pandora's Box, which is full of cans-'o-worms with loosely-fitted lids, over-used kitty litter and untended diaper buckets.

In this one paragraph you hit on exactly what we wanted this forum to be.

 

[Rick]

Yep sure is . . . If someone posts a question it's quite possible to get as many varied answers as people replying and it's also possible that none of them are wrong. Just discussing their own experiences and that is how it should be.

 

[Pistolero]

Hoping to find at least ONE good load for each gun. Some have multiple good loads, some,
so far have none.
When time permits, the search goes on, with hints from other searchers, posted here.

And hopefully, I will remember the good load when I find it.

Bill

 

[JSH]

"And hopefully, I will remember the good load when I find it."

I hate to admit coming home with targets that are good, only to not having written which gun and load it was.

 

[CZ93X62]

Similes and metaphors.

The 9mm Parabellum for casters is the Cotillion Debutante that demands steak & lobster at every dinner date, then picks at it and leaves the meal 3/4 uneaten. She wants your truck to be an Escalade, your attire to be designer label, and your demeanor to be fawning and reverent. Total PITA, IOW.

The 38 Special and 357 Magnum are Muddy Girls. Happy as h--l with burritos for lunch on a truck tailgate, helps you winch said truck out of the fire road rivulet she stuck it in, laughing and cussing right with you. Loves shooting and fishing and scrambling around deserts and mountains. Loves you with ferocity and as faithful as the day is long.

You might date the former, but you marry the latter.