LHP Testing

burbank.jung

Active Member
I'd like to ask my friends in the Bullet Casting World your advice from your wisdom. I casted various calibers of LHP bullets in small lots using .22lr scrap, pellet scrap, and JHP core scrap. I will cast various small lots with various alloys of tin with each. Has anyone tested LHP that was serrated with say a Philips screw driver and/or filled with something to help expansion help. What fill will work or not? I plan to shoot these into a barrel of water and compare this to loads with commercial bullets like the Speer Gold Dot. Why? Why not? I might have asked this previously but forgot. Thanks. Oh. I will PC he bullets.
 

358156 hp

At large, whereabouts unknown.
Are you planning on forming the cavity by driving a phillips screwdriver into the nose of the bullets? Hollowpoints have a greater chance of functioning if the cavity is tapered, not straight, and the depth of the cavity is important as well.
 

Outpost75

Active Member
For revolver loads around 800 fps as in .38 Special, use 1:30 tin-lead from Roto Metals. Meplat should be 0.7 of bullet diameter. Conical point nose cavity should have its major diameter 0.7 of meplat diameter having a 30 degree draft angle ending at a sharp point so that cavity depth at intersection of lines, is approximately twice as deep as the major diameter of the conical cavity.

At supersonic velocities increase draft angle on pin to 60 degrees so that conical cavity depth is equal to major diameter of conical cavity.

For full charge magnum loads above 1250 fps use the 60-degree draft angle and increase alloy hardness to 13 BHN using 1 pound of linotype to five pounds of wheel weights or 50-50 linotype and soft plumber's lead.
 
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fiver

Well-Known Member
30-1 works,,, works a bit better with a gas check.

look on the U-tube for Elvis ammo.
he done a video on exactly what your asking, he shot some bullets Charley sent him that were made by punching a hollow point bullet using a ground down screw driver bit in his lyman 450.
this pre-programs the nose to open by striating the lead.
then filling the H-point with caulk, Elvis added some bees wax to the caulk because it shrunk a little after being not quite filled.
 

smokeywolf

Well-Known Member
If I'm understanding you right...
Instead of a phillips driver, how about a Torx. The sets that come with a single driver and selection of different size Torx ends that snap on would allow for different size cavities or HPs and the Torx shape might lend itself to more predictable or consistent expansion.
 

Outpost75

Active Member
With correct cavity geometry and alloy, skiving the cavity with screwdrivers to induce stress risers is simple mental masturbation. Completely unnecessary. Doing so increases tendency for the expanded petals to break off and fragment the bullet.

With ductile tin-lead alloys and correct cavity geometry you can achieve reliable expansion at large caliber air rifle velocities <600 fps or in a .455 revolver. Plastic deformation modelling using finite element analysis software is very revealing. A good project for your engineering students.
 
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fiver

Well-Known Member
3 or 5 or 6 doesn't much matter.
the key is for the edge to cut into the lead making little cuts in it.

they do this to some jacketed rifle/pistol bullets that's how they get those pretty little consistent one after the other star shaped after pictures.

i have a process to make jacketed or cast 44 bullets that have the petals cut wide open and then formed back into shape, it's basically the same as winchester does it.
 

Bigbore5

New Member
Get the mold from MP and use the penta pins. Trying to use an improvised punch will distort the bullet inconsistently and destroy accuracy.

Personally, both on game and for accuracy, I have found no real advantage for the penta points over a proper alloy conventional hp in a standard weight design. In the super heavy for caliber ones, after the petals shear off there's enough mass left in the base to continue penetration, but in standard weight design it really doesn't matter much.
 

Glaciers

Alaska Land of the Midnight Sun
Well I’m speaking as an opinionated caster/shooter who has absolutely nothing scientific to back up my thoughts.
First off I have lead from various sources of generally unknown makeup. But it works which is good because I can’t afford buying from Roto Metals other then 5 or 10 pounds of this or that to harden an alloy, mostly tin. I love Roto Metals by the way, just makes for spendy bullets. For a few years I was enamored with the HP casting and bought molds from NOE and quickly became somewhat disappointed with one the pin design which can be a pain in the rear to get set right for casting. The other is, obviously this depends on the bullet you’re cast for, rifle or pistol.
For handguns it’s all dependent on velocity. Too much, stuff blows up, to little velocity and not much improvement.
Outpost has the answer there with a known quality of alloy.
But in my “use what you have world” I’ve ditched the HP in rifle bullets and either use a flat or cup point pins.
I handguns at lower velocities cup points work for me if I’m using a HP mold.
But as there are many variables what works for me is softer alloys, 30-1 with powder coating to hold things together.
But with traditional lubes 20-1 works pretty good so far.
I have a fair amount of CWW lead but I rarely use it because of moving diameters and hardness.
I do use CWW for some rifle bullets once they have aged, some Powder Coated and about half lubed, Ben’s Red, then coated BLL.
I admit I don’t have the experience of many on this Forum but I’m working on it.
Powder Coated bullets have opened up a large change in the velocity and hardness of bullets used. But the added diameter of .001 to .002 can cause a difference problem with certain molds. That’s where traditional lubes really shine.
But HP fracturing if the alloy is too hard or a bone is struck, unpredictable is not for me. Too many variables. Softer, bigger flat point, more weight, moderate velocity.

Anyway that’s my 2 cents and I’m probably over changing here.
 

CWLONGSHOT

Well-Known Member
My range scrap is mostly 22 RF and usually runs better then 11 bhn. This allow works well for reg Mag hand gun velocities but fragments.

When I want a 380 or 45 acp to preform I like 30:1 as repeatedly suggested here.

On my 1800fps ish loads for hunting COWW do me VERY WELL!

I like 20:1 for my 1150 ish it expands well for me.

CW
 

Bigbore5

New Member
Funny how much range scrap varies. I shoot it +2% tin at up to 1700fps using the large hp pin and it performs excellent without fracturing from where I get it. It also ages to about 11bhn.
 

Petrol & Powder

Well-Known Member
I must agree with both Glaciers and Outpost.

If you have a known alloy, the work has already been done for you and Outpost gives the definitive answer. If you are working with an unknown, variable alloy and trying to match to your velocity, I think Glaciers may have the answer for the most failsafe method – use a flat point or cup point.

That avoids most of the trouble of not enough bullet integrity if the velocity is too high for your hollow point / alloy / velocity combination. AND it still works well if the alloy is a little too hard or the velocity slightly lacking, or the HP configuration isn’t ideal.

In the “for what it’s worth category”, I’ve always placed emphasis on penetration over expansion in terms of terminal performance. It doesn’t matter how well the bullet expands if it doesn’t reach deep enough to do the required work. Perfectly mushroomed bullets look good in advertising copy but mean very little in the real world.
 

Missionary

Well-Known Member
Penetration.. That is the why I like heavy for caliber.
In the thick stuff my life enjoys there are all sorts of bushes and twigs I can figure are out there. Sure I can wait for that corn cruncher to pas an opening but there are other critters that need sorted out that may never give that perfect open shot.
A 265 grain FN in .41 or a 285-300 in 45 Colt has that bit extra to get to the offensive issue and get sorted with good to complete penetration.
My range is always under 40 yards and normally 10-20 yards. Anywhere from a 12" high tree limb to behind the bushes.
 

burbank.jung

Active Member
I am still leisurely casting my LHP bullets with various percentages of tin. Since my last post, I discovered the XRF Gun which can give me the alloy composition of my JHP, .22lr, and pellet lead ingots. Now I need to find someone who has one.
 

Urny

Missouri Ozarks, heart still in the Ruby Mountains
That XRF analyzer sounds like the berries so I visited duckduckgo to search for it. Nope, I can not afford one.
 

CZ93X62

Official forum enigma
The only HP bullets I shoot are store-bought, and usually jacketed. Some of it is in factory ammo--I expended my SIG P-220's long-in-the-tooth carry ammo at quals on Tuesday (WWB 230 grain JHP). It was 4 years old--I rotate 6 mags 3X/year to let springs relax. Yes, I'm a crank.

Arguing against Outpost 75 in arms venues is a very low-profit enterprise, I believe.
 
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fiver

Well-Known Member
i don't have a lot of use for h-points, i don't even have a h-point mold.
but i got the swaging stuff to make them with or without a jacket.
seems like someone always wants them though.
there's a lot of tricks you can play with them, doing so is kind of a hobby, it's like making varmint or big game bullets for your deer rifle.
there's a lot of insight to be gained when you know what's in there versus the observed real world outcome.