New Lee Dies

[quicksylver]

Hi Guys Dan Again...

This time I would like to relay my experience with a set of new Lee 308 dies..

I got the Lee DELUXE 3 die rifle set in 308 Win..

Deluxe...Deluxe PIA maybe...

In the end I was able to salvage them...

But this is what I had to do....

Maybe it was a rookie move but the FL sizing die was tight...a good thing I suppose...
but when I tried to remove the case from the die it took considerable effort to pull the decapping pin and neck expanding plug back out of the case...in hind sight I should have lubed the inside if the case neck...these were being sized for first firing so I wasn't really paying attention..

I got through 40 rounds cussing...then came the 41st rnd..
bingo..this is what I ended up with..as I said a rookie move...

The neck was so tight it pulled the decapping rod through the die.....

How could this be...well Lee in their great wisdom decided that the best way to hold the rod in was to use friction... yes if you look closely you will see that the top nut has cuts in it so it squeeze's the rod as the nut is screwed into the die body...great..so now you need two wrenches to remove and insert the decapping pin/rod.. no threaded rod no retaining nut ..no adjustment except with wrenches...OK...so now I am going to remove the rod from the case and mill down the spud to .300 or less and reinstall it..

Second issue with these DELUXE dies..the bullet seating stem had a recess milled into the end of it as most do...EXCEPT...it was too small and had a flair on the inside...when I attempted to seat bullets they came out looking like I tried to seat them using the inside of a washer...

I fixed that problem by removing the seating stem...a separate piece ....putting it in my cordless drill and opening up the seating end with of all thing my Swiss army knife.. the tip of the blade has the perfect profile for doing this..the metal was soft enough to do this ...then I buffed it slightly with a nylon scrub pad...it's perfect now..

No issues with the Neck sizing die....YET......

All in all an interesting journey...Dan

 

[Ben]

Did you mike the OD " of the neck expander that has the decapping pin on it ?

Yes, a thin film of lube on a Q tip rubbed lightly inside the necks makes all the difference.

 

[quicksylver]

Did you mike the OD " of the neck expander that has the decapping pin on it ?

Yes, a thin film of lube on a Q tip rubbed lightly inside the necks makes all the difference.

No ..I did not...I "trusted" Lee ......My Mistake

 

[RBHarter]

Yanking the pins out is "normal" with all of the Lee rifle dies I have had . I will eventually make replacement threaded pins for mine or replace them with other die sets. The pistol sets are more agreeable.

They aren't great for fat chambers or forming brass either. Seems like they need more and more finish/polish than in the past . The bleed vents are rough and make burrs on the brass .

 

[quicksylver]

Yanking the pins out is "normal" with all of the Lee rifle dies I have had . I will eventually make replacement threaded pins for mine or replace them with other die sets. The pistol sets are more agreeable.

Now ...he tells me...

 

[Lost Dog]

 

[JWFilips]

I know with their 8 mm x57 set the full length die can not be use to form 30-06 brass in to 8x57 well. The neck is too short . When I used that die on 06 brass I had to trim all the brass 1/4 shorter before reforming it ( Plus you still get the nasty vent scar) I replaced that FL die with an RCBS FL die and problem solved! I can run a full length 30-06 into it and reform to 8x57 then just trim the excess afterwords.
I do have to say however I like the Lee expanders with their long Taper They are pretty stout and I think they center the case in the die better then the other brands wimpy threaded shafts. Take note the Lee Decap expander rod is always centered in the die This is not the case with the more adjustable thread rod on an rcbs or Lyman. The primer pin always seems to drift around in these dies! Also the lee expander rods can be custom ordered to custom size ( $10 )
So in some ways the dies are bad but in others they are good!

But lets face it none of the brands of dies are made for using cast bullets. They all size the necks too small ...then we end up overworking the cases with our neck expander dies to get the cast bullets to fit. I have found that the lee dies are the easiest to hone out to cure this problem. Trying to hone out an RCBS die neck to size for cast bullets takes me hours. Honing out a Lee die is only about an hour total time

 

[quicksylver]

I had been using my ancient Lyman FL sizing die with a 223 decapping rod.....might go back to that...

 

[KHornet]

+Have had similar problems with lee size dies. Have solved it by dipping the nose in graphite.

 

[Ian]

Dan, the friction-fit decapping/EZ-Expander rod is designed that way on purpose. So when Fred Dumshitz doesn't check his cases for pea gravel inside before ramming the case into the resizing die, it doesn't break the decapping pin like everyone else's with threaded decapping rod will, it merely overcomes the clamping force of the collet and shoves the rod out. Lee calls this their "unbreakable" decapping rod, and really, that's pretty close to correct.

If you want the rod to grab well, you should remove it, degrease it, degrease the collet inside and out, apply a thin film of liquid clothes detergent do the inside of the collet with a Q-tip and swab the shank of the expander pin with same where it contacts the collet. Warm those two parts until too hot to hold (torch or heat gun) and let them cool. When cool, wipe with clean Q-tip and paper towel, apply high-pressure moly paste to the threads on the outside of the collet and inside of the die body. Reassemble and adjust rod, then crank down on the collet pretty hard with an end wrench. I keep a long, Snap-on 1/2" end wrench bought just for the purpose hanging on a nail near the loading presses along with a Crescent wrench for backup.

Now, let's talk about the reason your expander is coming out in the first place and why you think you want to grind it down (which is a huge mistake, by the way). Lee and RCBS both tend to go way overboard on their neck sizing. I wouldn't be surprised if your neck ID is coming out around .302" or even smaller. The expanding rod will bring it back to about .305" or so, but if you're shooting cast bullets you'll probably want to bring it back up to .309" or so. The sizing die is squeezing the neck too far. My fix for this is to hone the bejeezus out of them so they fit my rifles and the expander rod just barely, if at all, grazes the inside of the neck. Sizing the neck way too much and then dragging that expander back through it to bring it back up to size is a bad idea because it drags metal forward and often pulls the neck off center at the shoulder.

So the fix is hone out the neck and leave the expander alone. Hone the neck of the die until it gives you no smaller than .307" ID on the resized cases.

 

[Ian]

OH, one more thing, if the seating die is a "dead length" seater, which most of the collet sizing die sets contain, it may not have a crimp shoulder. You may not care.

You'll like that collet neck sizing die, when you get your brass fireformed to the rifle and just want to restore neck tension. You don't have to follow the instructions to fully resize the neck hard down on the rod, you can do a partial size which will give just enough neck reduction to provide the tension you need. Think of it as an adjustable bushing neck sizing die.

 

[quicksylver]

Ian...great info....thank you...I probably will check out the honing suggestion...sounds good.

What I am using the die for is just the initial resizing...after that it's neck sizing until they need FL sizing again....

However it would be great not to size the neck so far down..I would like the shoulder to be near spec when i start...

I will check the ID on a couple of case to see how far down they are going...

All my other brand FL dies would hang up slightly...but nothing like this....

Then again I suppose I could check the range pick up cases to see if they would chamber and only partially size...bad idea?

 

[JSH]

I polish all of my expanders now, not just the Lee dies either. Sizing the neck way down then dragging it back over a rough and large expanded ball does some strange things to necks and shoulders.
If insertion and extraction is not butter smooth I find the reason.
As mentioned a bit of lube in the mouth of every third or so round doesn't hurt a thing. Graphite,mica, q tip with some chap stick will even work. FYI a da. Will do ya. If you can see it you have to much.
One last thing on the Lee dies. Years back my very first encounter with Lee dies was with a 300 WM and once fired brass. After a few going in and coming out rough I tore the rim off of one. Never ever had it happen before. Read the instructions and the said to just loosen the top nut and knock it out with a hammer,NOT. Bent the expanded all to crap and still a stuck case. Ended up making my own threaded extractor with drill and tap.

 

[Brad]

I have down the same with a Hornady die in 270 Win.
This is why I prefer to avoid the expander ball entirely. I removed the X pander and decap stem from the dies I use for 375 H&H. The neck ends up far smaller than I want but the expander in the M die I made works fine to open the neck to the size I want.
Same reason the bushing does can be so good for us. We control the end external neck dimension and therefore the internal dimension too. Add a little neck flair and we just controlled neck tension.

 

[Ian]

Something else you gotta watch with the Lee dies is setting the expander/decapper too high in the die body where you get a pinch factor. Usually for it to be a problem it has to be high enough to not even enter the flash hole, but it depends on caliber. Unlike most dies, the EZ-Expander spud has the button portion very high up, and brass doesn't like getting drawn in three directions at once like is what happens coming out of the neck portion, over the mandrel, all while being pulled downward.

 

[fiver]

I like their neck collet size dies.

to cure the not big enough diameter thing I use rcbs dies and order a new ball for them.
you can get them in all kinds of sizes.
309 works well for cast, as does a 310 run in the drill for a bit with the scrubby pad to bring it down .0005.

this reminds me I need to order a couple of hornady punches for my neck sizers.
they use a one piece punch with no way to replace the pin.
great tapered balls in there and the necks aren't stupid small [my 30 sizes 30-30 cases to 309 id without the ball]
but their pin system leaves something to be desired.

 

[KHornet]

The lee neck sizers work pretty good overall, however will not work on KHornet brass. Probably could order a
Lee special, but got a good deal on a Redding KHornet neck sizer, and it is a work of art IMO. Have a couple of
other neck sizers by Redding that I got about half price on ebay. Lee is ok, but Redding is super ok!

 

[quicksylver]

OK GUYS....here's an update on the Lee FL sizing die...

I spun two pieces of 320 through the neck of the die ...cleaned it out and reassembled it...I greased up 40 , 308 cases and ran them through....WHAT A DIFFERENCE...PURE JOY!!...

I checked the ID...perfect they expand easily with the 308 M die...now for first firing and then trimming....

Thanks for the info....

 

[Ian]

HTH.

 

[JWFilips]

Dan,
Did you just polish it up or did you actually open it up / hone it ?
Jim