New to me Argy semi-Bubba "with issues"

[Pistolero]

I was looking over the used rifles at Cabelas a couple of days ago, and there was a "$5 sporterize"
job on a 1909 Argy. Pulled it out and the action and bolt were shiny bright, looked like new - the are
not blued. Bluing on barrel was mint, stock was the original, nicely cleaned up, sanded and oiled, original
sights. Closer examination showed a tiny "30-06 Sprgfld" stamp on the left rear of the barrel. Flipping
it over, I saw the barrel SN and action SN matched......Uh, OH!
I have seen this before. Original caliber was 7.65x53 Argentine, which normally takes a .312-.313 Jbullet.
I was thinking that a factory .30-06 .308 diam bullet would not be happy in that bore. Probably why
the gun was on the rack, nearly unfired. Probably scatters them like a shotgun.

Marked $310, took it back to the Gun Library (I know the guy there) and explained that he really didn't
want to sell this to most folks because the would be very unhappy with the essentially guaranteed
inaccuracy. He looked it over and I offered $275 (in retrospect should have offered $250, but that
is not a big deal). He discussed it with the other guy and agreed.

He allowed as how they had sold it and the guy brought it back in a couple of days, "didn't want it"--
I am sure I know why.

Bore is mint, cleaned it and slugged it. Even opened my eyes. One pair of grooves is .315, one pair
is .3155 and one pair is .316. Born fat is a hard thing. So, I will be looking through my molds
and see what will size to .317 or .318 and make up a M-type expander for that diam and see how the old
girl does with the proper fodder. I verified that a factory .30-06 round chambers just fine,
so the gunsmith did ream it before marking it, as I expected.

Bill

 

[quicksylver]

Knowledge is power...

 

[Pistolero]

Yes, definitely. I knew right away that that was going to be a real turd for most folks, but
could be a wonderful rifle for a caster. She's a pretty old girl, but needs special treatment
to be happy.

Bill

 

[quicksylver]

Well.....well said.....

 

[quicksylver]

Bill ..I actually surprised that such a quality rifle has a bore cut like that...but she should shoot.

additional plus...cases should be easier to come by..

 

[Pistolero]

Yes, although the Argy cases can be made from 8x57 or 7x57 or .30-06 by sizing
and trimming, so not a serious problem, but easier to just use the easily found '06 brass.

Bill

 

[Ian]

Looks like you have a "tight neck" .30-'06. All you need is a chamber/throat cast and custom mould from Tom if you don't come up with something appropriate from your collection. I'm really curious what pilot was used or if the "gunsmith" just let the '06 reamer trace the shoulder of the 7.65 chamber. It's likely that there is zero throat whatsoever if that was the case, since the '06 starts at .312" or so.

 

[JSH]

Bill I don't know what I was shooting in mine but I will look. It is a GC of course.
314299 and I think I have Loverin design that cast on the big side. Worse comes to worse some aluminum tape on the block face may help.
My Finn Nagant and Argentine both were easy to work with.
Jeff

 

[Pistolero]

Ian - Yes, I was wondering about that, too. I have access to a bore scope and will take a look to see what it is like
in there. If it isn't too tight, meaning failing to release properly, it may enhance accy with cast. Certainly a
surprise package.

Jeff - I need to look through my molds. IIRC I got one big enough in an old Lee group buy, may be a fat Loverin,
too. Who knows, might be the same GB.

Bill

 

[Pistolero]

OK, I have an unused 6 cav Lee mold for a Loverin style bullet, marked "GB 316 Loverin"
so I should be good for this rifle, if it casts a bit above the intended size. Of course,
chambering may be an issue, depending on neck diam.

Bill

 

[Ian]

Now you just need a .340" neck bushing. Got lathe?

Is suspect your loaded necks @ .316" bullet will still have .001" total clearance. If not, turning the high side off the necks should provide ample room for bullet release.

 

[Pistolero]

I am thinking that .316 will be like shooting .309 in a normal .308, which hasn't been too good for me.
I may need to outside neck turn some cases by .003 or so.

Easy peasy on the .340 busihng, but no die to hold it. Probably buy the standard holder
type and make my bushing, if I need it.

Bill

 

[Bret4207]

If it wants something fatter, there are skinny .321 moulds out there for the 32 Special. Might be an option.

Too bad about that rifle. The 7.65x53 is a marvelous cartridge that will do anything the 308/'06 will do for all practical purposes.

 

[Pistolero]

Yeah, I agree, but depending on when it was done, we have to remember that it was probably a $30-40 rifle
and there was absolutely no ammo in it's original caliber, or if there was it was a small quantity
of FMJ corrosive, non-reloadable. We are so lucky today to have Prvi making all this good quality
brass for the odd old calibers in boxer priming for reasonable prices. Things were not so good
in decades past. I have a nearly mint Chilean 1895 that I bought in '67 for $36, even nice
milsurps were pretty cheap back in the days before the evil '68 GCA.

Some guy wanted to make it into a hunting rifle and probably the gunsmith told him that this
would work. And if the particular rifle was on the tight side, say .310-.311, they may have been
OK accuracy-wise. This old girl was born fat, so I doubt that it has ever shot even reasonably
well with factory .30-06.

Bill

 

[Bret4207]

Back in the day in the gun shop we used to stock a lot of Norma, Herters and CIL brand ammo for the metrics and some of the older stuff. The 7.65 was pretty well represented where I grew up, along with Arisakas, Carcanos, 303 British, a scattering of various calibered Mannlichers, a whole heaping bunch of 8x57's and rounds like the 351 Win, 22 Sav Hi Power (Quite popular in Ontario and Quebec for some reason), 33 Win, 30 Rem, etc. CIL (Canadian Industries Ltd. IIRC) made some good stuff but I'm not sure if it was brought down from Canada or through an importer. They were the only source for some of the old RF stuff we had at one point, and then that dried up too.