NOE 460-393 RN

[JonB]

Late last night, I pulled the trigger on a 2 cav NOE 460-393 RN mold.
I've been himmin and hawwin over a 45-70 mold, since I sold a NOE 405gr FN mold, that I wasn't happy with. I'm thinking I really like the Lyman 457483. I've researched and read about experiences, and though most seem many drop a skinny bullet, I am still liking that basic design.

I passed on a nice Lyman sgl cav. w/handles for a reasonable price on fleabay, cuz I couldn't get a decent answer to what size bullets dropped from the seller's mold. The seller hesitantly said "457 obviously"
I also looked at Arsenal's offerings, as well as Accurate's designs...and finally decided, for better or worse, on the NOE. I haven't bought from NOE for a number of years and I know some here have not had the best luck with NOE molds, ...and while I've had a couple molds from NOE, that I wasn't happy with, I have been happy with my other NOE molds (12 or so).

The thing that clinched it, was the NOE 460-393RN design (based on Lyman 457483), having a tapered GC shank. I have a pile of the Lyman/Ideal 45 Rifle GCs that I am hoping will be a perfect fit. My measuring of the GCs and the NOE Bullet diagram dimensions tell me they will. Is that a stupid reason to buy a mold? because I got a pile of GCs?

ALSO...
I woke up one of Ben's threads, a while back, about one he has and I sure wish I could get so lucky to find an Ideal like that.

IDEAL 457483

IDEAL 457483 , I shot some yesterday from my 45/70, deadly accurate with my load. I'm getting a nice, round .460" with ACWW's. I'm shooting these out of a Knight K P - 1, , 45/70 with a Green Mountain barrel. My load that shot so well yesterday was 21.0 grs. of 2400 with the...

www.artfulbullet.com

So now comes the question I want to ask all my friends here.
Someone on the other forum made this comment in a thread, directed to another caster that was having problems with a 452 Ideal mold dropping bullets that were .455/.456

Many old Ideal moulds will invariably cast large with ternary alloys. Many of the earlier Ideal moulds were cut for alloys well before Lyman [not to be confusing Lyman moulds with Ideal moulds] standardized on #2 alloy. Many pistol bullets were cut for binary alloy of lead to tin or even Lyman #1 alloy all of which gave greater shrinkage than ternary alloys.

Can this be true? that some old Ideal molds drop .003"+ with COWW or similar alloy, than with a alloy like 20:1 ?
...I mean .003+ larger? that's just crazy, ain't it?


Anyway, if this were true, it would explain to me why Ben's Ideal mold drops a large size bullet, compared to other 457483 Lyman molds I've read about, that drop small bullets (.458 or smaller) with COWW or similar alloy.

What are ya'lls thoughts?

 

[JustJim]

When seeking a mould, choosing one because you already have gas checks is a perfectly sound reason. if your gas checks don't fit, drop me a PM--I've got a small stash of leftover Hornady 45 checks I'll send you. I picked up a partial box back when I was playing with a Lyman 462560. (For reference, when cast of WWL and loaded hot, shot very well in every Ruger #3 I tried it in.)

 

[JonB]

I was hoping for some comments to my question in the OP, quoted below.

SNIP...

So now comes the question I want to ask all my friends here.
Someone on the other forum made this comment in a thread, directed to another caster that was having problems with a 452 Ideal mold dropping bullets that were .455/.456

Many old Ideal moulds will invariably cast large with ternary alloys. Many of the earlier Ideal moulds were cut for alloys well before Lyman [not to be confusing Lyman moulds with Ideal moulds] standardized on #2 alloy. Many pistol bullets were cut for binary alloy of lead to tin or even Lyman #1 alloy all of which gave greater shrinkage than ternary alloys.

Can this be true? that some old Ideal molds drop .003"+ with COWW or similar alloy, than with a alloy like 20:1 ?
...I mean .003+ larger? that's just crazy, ain't it?

.
.
.
Yesterday afternoon, for the first time ever, I filled the casting furnace with 20-1
I cast some Lee 457-340-F, and with the 20-1, the bullet's diameter was a slightly misaligned .4585 by .4590 (I carefully checked several samples).
Three years ago, when I bought this mold, I cast some samples with a 50-50 alloy (COWW-soft Range scrap) and I documented the diameter back then as .458 by .459 ...and I still had all those in a jar on the shelf, I quickly measured a few of those yesterday, .458 by .459 yep still the same, I thought they might have grown.

So, is there any truth to the .003+ larger with a ternary alloy statement in the Quote?

 

[Larry Blackmon]

Joe
if your 45 Lyman checks don't work or are to loose, try the BSS 458 rifle gas checks, they are thicker and are designed for the 458 rifle bullets. you can get them from NOE

 

[JonB]

The mailman delivered my new 2 cav NOE 460-393 RN mold today, maybe I'll post photos tomorrow.

I heated up the pot that was half full of 20-1 to cast some. The mold functioned great. BUT, they drop large ...like .464 large
Normally that'd be way over size for my liking. But with this design (round bands with not a lot of bearing area), I think it'll be fine, They size real easy in my Lyman 45 with the 20-1 alloy. Also, the GC shank is oversize at .428 tapered up to .434 Now in my mind I thought that'd be awful, but the undersized Ideal GCs I have, do squeeze on ...and if the shank was smaller, I don't think they'd crimp/squeeze on with my .459 size die. That thought didn't enter my head when I was ordering, but it should have. If I got what I wanted, size wise (a shank of .424 to .428 as the specs diagram shows), I now know I would have been very disappointed...so I guess I got Lucky.

 

[JonB]

Well, after playing with the vintage Ideal GCs and trying to find an easy way to seat them
and then running them through the sizer, I found they just don't expand/bump-up close
enough to .459 ...and they got lube all over the base and edges of the GC.

As I was looking for something to expand the Ideal GCs, I found a box of Hornady 45
rifle GCs I didn't know I had? Well, they work perfect. I installed the Lyman GC seater
dealiBob that I had never used before, because I didn't think it'd work on a Lyman 45,
until Ian 'splained it to me a few months ago.

I needed to lower the depth stop adjustment all the way down install the GC seater,
then adjust the depth stop up, to lock it in place, as shown in second photo.
It worked perfect.

Sizing the 20-1 bullet down .005 plus the GC sizing down (about .002) and crimping, sure
makes for more of a workout for the 45, then just sizing down the bullet without a GC.
Luckily, I'm making these for a single shot, so I won't be doing large batches