Noob Loob

[Tony]

What lube(s) do you guys recommend for someone just getting started in cast? The easiest thing would be to buy a commercial lube but that may not offer the best performance. The next easiest option would be to make my own from one or two of the recipes out there: BLL, Ben's Red, Glen's Lithi-Bee, Lamar's Simple Lube, ???.

My handgun shooting will include .32 H&R, .38 Spl, .44 Spl, .45 ACP/AR at or below SAAMI max pressures.

My rifle shooting will include several .22 center fires, .257 Roberts, 7x57R, .30-06, .338-308, 9.3x62, .375 H&H and .416 Rigby. I will be striving for accuracy at low to mid level velocities. I doubt that I will ever shoot cast above 2,200 fps with most of my loads running from 1,000 to 1,800 or so fps. Accuracy and fun are my main goals.

I will be shooting in air temperatures from about 40 degrees to about 85 degrees F.

I have two lube sizers, a SAECO and a Redding/SAECO.

 

[KHornet]

I am a firm believer in BR, and BLL. Have a Lyman 45, two Lyman 450's, and two RCBS
lube sizer. BL works very well in all 5 of them without heat. Have used others very successfully,
and prior to the advent of Ben's Red, had been using Lar's for a number of years and was
satisfied. However, Ben made a believer of me and that is what I use exclusively, with one
coat of BLL.

Paul

 

[Ian]

Well, there's an easy button if I've ever seen one. The question would be more like what lubes WON'T work.

My advice for the stated temperature range (plus some on both ends) and ALL of the uses listed, just make some of the OLD NRA lube. Melt equal parts filtered beeswax, canning paraffin, and cheap store-brand petroleum jelly together in a double-boiler, and pour directly into your sizers.

 

[fiver]

you can buy a good lube from Randy Rat on the boolits site for like 1.50 a stick.
his tac-x is really good for the price.
my simple lube is simple to make and will cover your needs and beyond as will Bens lube.

 

[35 shooter]

I'm in the same camp as KHornet on the BLL and Ben's Red and use both on everything now. They will cover the temps. you suggested easily and just keep going on either end.

If it's your first time making lube, Fiver's Simple lube is fast and easy to make and is a very good lube.
BLL takes maybe 5 minutes to make and is the best tumble lube i've tried for sure.
I like it just as much as Ben's Red.
Ben's Red is like making a fine wine to me. It's still shooting in temps. you won't want to be out in on both ends for me.

All the lubes you suggested are good ones though.

 

[Tony]

From the responses so far it appears that I do not need to be thinking in terms of one lube for handguns and one for rifles. Do I have that about right? It seems to me that having two lube sizers will make experimenting a bit easier.
I am a recovering bench rest shooting (IBS/NBRSA) addict. Have any of you tested these lubes for extreme (there's THAT word again) accuracy?

 

[fiver]

now your talking something else again.
tuning a lube for accuracy means your looking at temperature windows [and probably some humidity levels as well]
what your trying to do there is keep a consistent lube viscosity for a continuous CORE condition.

as the temperature goes up and down your lube can get softer or harder, the trick is to tweak it just enough to match those conditions and keep it there for a string of shots.
how to go about the load stuff is to work your loads in temps that are in the middle of your window.
this gives you a baseline to work from.
adding or subtracting @5% from the base wax should allow you to maintain that consistency
as you go up or down in temperature.

now if your temps are going to be in the 90-95+ area the 3% addition of carnuba wax would be your next step.
as soon as you get down near the 50-f area that addition will not be a benefit unless your shooting a long string of 20+ shots.

 

[Ian]

Yep, outside of the stated window things change a LOT. If you go above 85 (which unless you moved out of state or want to shoot only at night or only about three weeks a year during the daytime, you will be) then you'll need something far different from what I recommended previously. I spent about five years testing lubes for Texas heat, running a window from about 65 to 108 most of the time, which is when most of MY shooting is done. Colder tests were done and I learned a lot about the temperature range limitations of most lubes. Almost every lube out there begins to cause group dispersion issues when the ambient temps, barrel, and ammunition gets really hot, like hot to where you will be drizzling cool water down the bore every five shots to keep from burning yourself.

Having made or bought and tested over 300 lube formulas for accuracy in normal to extreme heat, I can recommend Felix World Famous Lube without reservation for the best rifle accuracy and overall performance in warm to very hot weather. Add the optional Carnauba wax per the recipe, and use HEAVY white mineral oil from the pharmacy (laxative-grade, right next to the castor bean oil that you'll need also). BUT, this lube will give you cool weather, cold-start flyers, or even cool start flyers at and below 50F. Also, it might give you troubles in your low-pressure handguns because it takes pressure to liquify the stuff and it might only come off in chunks all the way to the target due to being too stiff from the carnauba. So you can soften it with about 5% Vaseline to extend the low-pressure shooting window without affecting the high-temperature characteristics very much. That way you can have one lube for everything, just be prepared that in jacket weather it will probably need a couple of fouling shots prior to shooting a group.

There are still a lot of things that will work for you up to 100 degrees and down to 55-60, including a multitude of commercial offerings, so you're likely to get a lot of different opinions. This is only mine.

 

[JonB]

Easy?
I think you've asked the wrong group about easy.
Maybe there isn't an easy answer, especially when you add the comment "recovering bench rest shooting (IBS/NBRSA) addict"

If you're not adverse to the smell of alox, I'd think the NRA lube (50% beeswax/50% alox) would be a good option, you can make it yourself or buy it commercially from a few sources...Glenn at White labels lubes would be my first choice...he also has a version with carnuba, called BAC.

Gear mentions the OLD NRA lube, but din't mention the addition of soap? to make it 666-1
That is one I would have tried, if I didn't jump in feet first with SL68B.

Char-Gar (on the other website...and maybe he is here also?) has decades of experience with a simple Beeswax/Vaseline lube, I don't think he used it 50/50, but it was close, a search would find that info, and he may have adjusted that for temperature, or Rifle use, as well ???.

OK, that's my take on easy.
....
my choice?
I chose to jump on the coat-tails of the experts here (I surely am not an expert) and use SL68B exclusively (a version of Ian's soap lube experiments). It's not easy to make, but not really difficult, if you have some advanced cooking skills ...and it does use micro-wax, which for now, is a challenge to buy in small quantities.
http://www.artfulbullet.com/index.php?threads/sl68-continued.104/

for more of a sales pitch, see also:
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...uot-boolit-lube-and-how-to-make-it&highlight=

I suspect one more persons comments on this, only complicates your choice...making it even less easy.
Good Luck anyway,
Jon

 

[Ian]

Gear mentions the OLD NRA lube, but din't mention the addition of soap? to make it 666-1

I would have, but it never was quite as good as Felix lube in the heat even with the soap. 85 and below, it doesn't need soap and shoots VERY well in pretty much everything. Since Tony has a variety of rifles and mentions benchrest shooting, that was my recommendation. But above 85, Felix lube is one of the two best lubes I've ever tested.

 

[gman]

Felix lube gave me the exact same performance that Ian stated. It was the second lube that I cooked up and made a believer out of me. Until I tested it in my 45-70 Marlin in cold weather. I also tried the 666+1 and in cold weather it worked for the cold barrel shot but in the South Louisiana heat it went downhill rapidly. It makes me grin every time I see a question like this posted because I know what's coming. It amazes me the amount of knowledge on lubes the guys here have. It's always a learning experience for myself when I read the replies. Sure would be nice to actually get to meet up with these folks. And good luck on your decent into the world of lube!

 

[waco]

For the money and performance White Label lubes are hard to beat. I use 2500+ and BAC
http://www.lsstuff.com/
Glenn makes a great product and will even ship you a partial stick of any of his lubes to try for free before you buy. Hard to beat that.
All of his stuff is about $2 a stick.
Walter

 

[Ian]

Walter, because this:

I am a recovering bench rest shooting (IBS/NBRSA) addict. Have any of you tested these lubes for extreme (there's THAT word again) accuracy?

Glen makes good stuff, he and Leah are top-notch people, price is right, 99% of shooters would need nothing else, but sometimes there's that other 1%. I've tested BAC, Commercial Red, and Carnauba Red (people sent me lots of stuff during the heyday of the "Extreme Lube Quest"), and if that was all there was to it I would have called that one "fulfilled" a long time ago.

 

[waco]

I get great accuracy with 2500 and BAC. How good does it need to be? At what point are you splitting hairs?
40-85 degrees F. No need for anything "special"
So what is considered "extreme accuracy"? 5 plain base 308's into sub .700" @ 100 yards is pretty good for me.

 

[Brad]

Try that at 40° with a 32-20 from a cold barrel with Carnuba Red. Can good accuracy be had in many situations with white label lubes? Yes, but now in all situations.
I got tired of the stickiness from handling ammo loaded with CR when it got hot. My 1911 was sticky, my fingers were sticky, the empties were sticky. That stickiness is, in my opinion, from the same stuff that gave me cold barrel flyers in cold.

 

[fiver]

1's and 2's.
many of my rifles will hold well under 1/2"
I [okay littlegirl] have posted the pictures here and there.
many of them when shooting quite a bit under 20-f.
one of the lubes that has held up over long strings in the cold well [15-30f] has been a mix of 50-50-carnuba red, and white lith grease. [2-1-20%]
you gotta burn one or two then shoot for groups but it holds up for the rest of the day after that.

 

[waco]

I don't hunt with cast bullets. I kill paper, beer cans, and rocks. You guys must just have higher standards and way more time to experiment with all these different things than me. And that's cool. I can appreciate that. I also live near the Pacific coast (60 miles away)

We don't get very many "extreme" temp days one way or the other. And on most of those days, I'm not out shooting in it.

Tony sounded like he wanted to have a good simple all around go to lube that gave good results. He is also new to casting. He has WAY more important things to learn to do correctly than fussing too much over this lube or that. That will come with time. Just my two cents.

 

[fiver]

but the question he asked needs a more in depth answer.
the basic get this or make that from the OP was answered.

then he made the next step and want's to really tune things in.
being a bench rest shooter he understands doing things consistently.
which is a huge part of shooting cast well also.
getting there is one thing, adjusting to stay there over changing conditions is another.
the larger you make the window the harder it is.
it is like using one jacketed bullet for everything you could hunt here in N.A.
your gonna give up on one end to gain on the other, do you want to shoot cotton tail rabbits or Elk?

 

[Tony]

Thanks guys. Please keep posting. I've read all of the posts, some of them several times.

With two lube sizers I have no objection to using two different lubes. When I said simple (easy) I was implying two things. 1) It's easier to buy it than to make your own. 2) Some of the lubes (soap lubes) are more involved to make and the high heat involved in reheating them causes me some concerns.

When I listed some lubes in my OP I had a brain phaarrrtt and forgot to mention Felix lube. I've been interested in it since first reading about it over at CB.

My 40 to 85 degree F air temp range is based more on my comfort than anything else. I am retired and can shoot when I choose. In a few months I'll be living in the country with my own range "right out the back door". I'll do my Texas summer shooting early in the morning.

Waco - When I was shooting BR regularly, with a good rifle and load, in conditions (wind and mirage) I could handle, I expected to shoot 100 yard aggs (aggregate of 5-5 shot groups) in the low .2's, certainly much less than .25". If one can not do that they have no chance of being the agg winner, or even close for that matter.

 

[waco]

With jacketed bullets, right?