F
freebullet
Guest
Uhh, I do. In a 51 ford Crestliner & a couple outboards. Those are the only engines that might run if we ever had a major emp event. Sometimes old is better.
OK, machinsts, what kind of a machine is this?
- Thread starter Pistolero
- Start date
Uhh, I do. In a 51 ford Crestliner & a couple outboards. Those are the only engines that might run if we ever had a major emp event. Sometimes old is better.
Pistolero
Well-Known Member
Actually, freebullet, that is a myth. Modern cars will survive an EMP with at least 80, probably 95% needing nothing
at all. Some will need to be shut down and restarted, a few will need the battery disconnected and then reconnected for a full
reset. The fun and interesting fictional books suggesting that all computerized cars will be fried are BS. There has been
considerable testing and the necessary shielding to keep the ignition pulses from interfering with the very low level computer
signals which run everything on the car will adequately protect against EMP. There are a few that might require some
repairs, but typically not major stuff, at least not from the testing that has been published.
The biggest risks are the power transformers connected to long power lines, and voltage sensitive devices plugged into
normal mains power. These very long power lines will act as a huge antennae, capturing a really large power pulse
which is likely to damage both power line transformers and plugged in electronics. Cars, being independent, shielded a great
degree by the car body, and then the individual wires and devices hardened against the VERY CLOSE ignition "always-on EMPs"
will be mostly fine. There is some reasonable expectation that a high quality lightning arresting electronic system between
the mains and a TV or similar device, MIGHT protect it. The issue is that the voltage rise time of the EMP is significantly
faster than the rise time of a lightning strike, so it may beat the lightning protection electronics to the draw, so to speak.
I wonder what an electric car would do if it was charging? Probably not hurt the batteries, but likely fry the charger
circuits from the mains power pulse.
Several friends have asked me about this EMP issue and I was uncertain (had read a couple of interesting and fun fictional
books about it) if it was true, so spent some time investigating it. The largest issue by far was large central power
station transformers which 15-20 years ago were mostly custom designed, usually unique, construction for each application and
VERY large and heavy, and not intended for field repair. 20 years ago there were NO US or Canadian large power
transformer manufactures, either. All this mitigated towards very long (many months to even years) lead times to replace
these mains power transformers, leading to the basic premise of the books to be fairly accurate. There are now seven
US/Canadian large power transformer manufacturers, most new designs are standard off the shelf models, and in many
cases two or three transformers which are physically far smaller and lighter (easier to ship) are replacing single, custom
designed units. MUCH has been done to improve this situation, but must more is needed to be done to really completely
protect our power grid. A good friend who is a powerplant mechanical engineer has given me
a good bit of this info, and others from industry/government reports.
The power companies and the government have been on the case, ( I know - government??!!) and of course this grinds slowly,
but they are making progress. Things are far better than they were in say, in the mid to late 1990s. Large transformers
have finite lives due to internal vibrations (you have no doubt heard the 60 cycle hum) caused by the AC power, so as they
have been aging out, they have been replaced with standard designs, newer designs intended for field repairs after EMP
damage, and smaller units which can be handled by more ordinary heavy lift equipment, more normal sized semis and
not oversized so shipping, if needed for repairs, will be much easier and faster. And the factories are here in the USA,
and standard designs means some units are on standby - at the power companies, and at the factories.
I guess I can drift my own thread as much as I want.
Bill
at all. Some will need to be shut down and restarted, a few will need the battery disconnected and then reconnected for a full
reset. The fun and interesting fictional books suggesting that all computerized cars will be fried are BS. There has been
considerable testing and the necessary shielding to keep the ignition pulses from interfering with the very low level computer
signals which run everything on the car will adequately protect against EMP. There are a few that might require some
repairs, but typically not major stuff, at least not from the testing that has been published.
The biggest risks are the power transformers connected to long power lines, and voltage sensitive devices plugged into
normal mains power. These very long power lines will act as a huge antennae, capturing a really large power pulse
which is likely to damage both power line transformers and plugged in electronics. Cars, being independent, shielded a great
degree by the car body, and then the individual wires and devices hardened against the VERY CLOSE ignition "always-on EMPs"
will be mostly fine. There is some reasonable expectation that a high quality lightning arresting electronic system between
the mains and a TV or similar device, MIGHT protect it. The issue is that the voltage rise time of the EMP is significantly
faster than the rise time of a lightning strike, so it may beat the lightning protection electronics to the draw, so to speak.
I wonder what an electric car would do if it was charging? Probably not hurt the batteries, but likely fry the charger
circuits from the mains power pulse.
Several friends have asked me about this EMP issue and I was uncertain (had read a couple of interesting and fun fictional
books about it) if it was true, so spent some time investigating it. The largest issue by far was large central power
station transformers which 15-20 years ago were mostly custom designed, usually unique, construction for each application and
VERY large and heavy, and not intended for field repair. 20 years ago there were NO US or Canadian large power
transformer manufactures, either. All this mitigated towards very long (many months to even years) lead times to replace
these mains power transformers, leading to the basic premise of the books to be fairly accurate. There are now seven
US/Canadian large power transformer manufacturers, most new designs are standard off the shelf models, and in many
cases two or three transformers which are physically far smaller and lighter (easier to ship) are replacing single, custom
designed units. MUCH has been done to improve this situation, but must more is needed to be done to really completely
protect our power grid. A good friend who is a powerplant mechanical engineer has given me
a good bit of this info, and others from industry/government reports.
The power companies and the government have been on the case, ( I know - government??!!) and of course this grinds slowly,
but they are making progress. Things are far better than they were in say, in the mid to late 1990s. Large transformers
have finite lives due to internal vibrations (you have no doubt heard the 60 cycle hum) caused by the AC power, so as they
have been aging out, they have been replaced with standard designs, newer designs intended for field repairs after EMP
damage, and smaller units which can be handled by more ordinary heavy lift equipment, more normal sized semis and
not oversized so shipping, if needed for repairs, will be much easier and faster. And the factories are here in the USA,
and standard designs means some units are on standby - at the power companies, and at the factories.
I guess I can drift my own thread as much as I want.
Bill
Last edited:
Pistolero
Well-Known Member
You're welcome. I have some not-so-techie friends who were quite worried about this, and I, frankly, was
pretty worried, too, esp after reading some hair raising fiction books.
I have been periodically spending time searching for what is available, building a list of reports and general
knowledge about this potential attack mode.
Bill
pretty worried, too, esp after reading some hair raising fiction books.
I have been periodically spending time searching for what is available, building a list of reports and general
knowledge about this potential attack mode.
Bill
Last edited:
Ian
Notorious member
Sun made lots of cool stuff. We actually have a distributor machine in the shop, it has serial numbers on each part of the unit (dwell, tach, and vacuum advance) and it still gets used. Race cars and old industrial gas engines (not to mention all the antiques we work on) still need it if you want it to be right. Continental forklift engines will be around for the next hundred years at least.
smokeywolf
Well-Known Member
The Sun Distributor Machine that I had in the machine shop had come out of a storage room in the Transportation Department's Garage. It was a distributor machine, not an engine analyzer.
I still have a cheapo consumer level Sun Engine Analyzer and a fairly good Sun Timing Light in my garage.
I still have a cheapo consumer level Sun Engine Analyzer and a fairly good Sun Timing Light in my garage.
Ian
Notorious member
Wish I still had the big rolly-round Sun cart with eight inductive secondary ignition leads and all the other probes, looked like something from an intensive care unit, with big-azz 10-channel o-scope. Best thing EVER for chasing ignition problems. With one of those and a four-gas analyzer there wasn't much a good tech couldn't fix on a "carbonated" gas engine.