OLD Guns!

Pistolero

Well-Known Member
#2
I have one like that, need to look closer to see which it is most like. BP .455 but still in original
caliber. I have only shot it a couple of times, with BP ammo commercially sourced that came
with the gun. Seems to shoot OK. Very stout gun, seems pretty strong.
Bill
 

oscarflytyer

Well-Known Member
#3
The plastic grip is a MK IV, shaved for 45 ACP. Fine to shoot with low level 45 ACPs in Moon clips. The wood grip is a MK II/1894-1896/BP gun. They DID, however, up the round to Cordite in 1894. It is one HEFTY gun! Said to be strongest top break design ever. IF it were mine (AND because I hate safe queens) I would probably use very low level 455 Webley load data, and ~200-230 grn soft cast bullets. Velocity in the ~600-650 fps realm, make sure it left the bbl/put a hole in the paper, and enjoy the smoke and bang!
 

oscarflytyer

Well-Known Member
#6
A lot of people scoff at the idea of a 230 gr bullet at 600 fps, but they never want to stand downrange and play catch with them!
The original 455 Webley load was a 262/265 grain bullet! The research says the Brits were looking for something for short range that would one shot stop that guy swinging that damned Saber at you in the outreaches of civilization where they trying to colonize! Seems they pretty well pleased with the 455 Webley round and performance!
 

Pistolero

Well-Known Member
#7
Yeah, that big blade is a pretty serious weapon, and you need to stop him NOW, not in 20 seconds.

Watching the testing on 'Forged in Fire" has impressed me how VERY glad I am that I never had to be
on a medieval battlefield where blades and spears ruled the day. YIKES! My bet is that, even after more
than a century and a half of firearms and cannon as the primary battlefield weapons, cold steel is probably
the all time leader in the clubhouse for putting men in the ground.

Needing to stop a man with a big blade is a very urgent need.

Bill
 

Charles Graff

Moderator Emeritus
#9
Yeah, that big blade is a pretty serious weapon, and you need to stop him NOW, not in 20 seconds.

Watching the testing on 'Forged in Fire" has impressed me how VERY glad I am that I never had to be
on a medieval battlefield where blades and spears ruled the day. YIKES! My bet is that, even after more
than a century and a half of firearms and cannon as the primary battlefield weapons, cold steel is probably
the all time leader in the clubhouse for putting men in the ground.

Needing to stop a man with a big blade is a very urgent need.

Bill
Yes, the United States Army discovered the need to put a man down with a large heavy edge weapon when the Moros came charging. Their sidearm would not do it, but the Krag would. That experience lead to the development and adoption of the 45 ACP round in the 1911 pistol.
 

Pistolero

Well-Known Member
#11
A friend, who moved to Phoenix area, and I haven't seen for a decade or more, was a Belgian
soldier in the Congo during that unpleasantness, early 60s, I think. He recalled the first time a group of spear
and machete armed rebels charged them across an open field. He was a newbie, had never
fired upon a human, but was confident with his FN FAL in 7.62 NATO (.308 Win ball) and the
initial range of about 100 yds. He started shooting and was seeing bloody holes appear in
the guy's bare chest, but he kept running full speed with that machete over his head. By the third
hit with no apparent effect it was getting scary. The attacker finally dropped about 15 yds out,
but my friend, and his compatriots were quite shaken. It is possible that the rebels were on
some sort of drugs, he didn't know, but he was worried about dropping someone with a spear
or big blade in time if the initial engagement range was short.

A current project is max loads with the Speer Gold Dot 125 gr in .357 Magnum. May chrono
some today. I want to see what they will really do, velocity-wise, out of a 4" bbl. I did chrono
some old S&W brand ammo that went 1500 fps in a 6" Security Six some years back.

Bill
 

CZ93X62

Active Member
#12
W-W cases, 17.5 grains of 2400, CCI 500 primer with the Rem or Speer 125 grainer matches the 1425 FPS my 686 gets with Federal #357B, the vaunted FBI 357 load that eats K-frames and drops goblins.
 

Pistolero

Well-Known Member
#13
I have some loads that I may test in the next few days, supposed to reach into the 50s and sunny,
a gift here in Jan. 21.5 W296, 125 Gold Dot, new Starline brass, CCI 550 primers. Also loaded some
17.0 2400 in same cases, CC1500 primers, cast 125 Lee RF at .358 diam. Will chrono in 4" HB
S&W SS K-frame, MOdel 65. Not going to run a lot of them through that gun, but did want chrono
info on those loads, plus some idea of where they go POA vs POI.

Will also see what they do in the 6" 586. +1 seven shooter.

Bill
 

oscarflytyer

Well-Known Member
#14
Bill - interesting! Sounds a lot like the Moro's and why we went to the 45 ACP. I now have a 100 yo Smith 1917 revolver in 45 ACP (only gonna shoot nice lite paper punching cast loads in it due to age!), and going to get a Smith 625 Miculek The 625 (N Frame) will def see some top loads! Not all the time, but def to kill bowling pins monthly!
 

Pistolero

Well-Known Member
#15
Yes, if a guy gets to you with a spear or big blade and dies 3 seconds later, you may still be
killed by him. Stopping power is not academic against cold steel.
This is why the "21 foot" rule was created, too.

Bill
 

fiver

Well-Known Member
#16
the Russians learned the cold metal thing the hard way too.
that's how the M-44 got the stupid folding bayonet versus the NO bayonet having model 39.
they got into it with the Germans and after the cooks and clerks made it back to the rear they gave a first hand account of the necessity of having such an attachment.