Oversized 45 Colt chamber

[Brad]

We have had many discussions here where the oversized nature of 45 Colt chambers in Ruger and Marlin guns was mentioned.
Ever wonder what happens over time to the brass?

This is a case that was fired multiple times, likely 10+, in a Marlin and/or Ruger. I am using a Hornady carbide sizer. I tend to size only to the base of the bullet or slightly below.

When ejecting this case from my Marlin I knew instantly it had split. These cases have a very distinct sound when struck. I can take a handful of brass and instantly know if any are split like this.

 

[CZ93X62]

The undersized specs of RCBS tungsten-carbide sizing dies in some calibers do us no favors. Even in a proper 45 Colt chamber of ~.480" diameter. a die that sizes down to .469" is WAY TOO SMALL. I went to a steel sizer die/case lube, and my cases get sized to .476"-.477" now depending on make. I went the same route for the 44 Special/Magnum as well, for the same reasons--I tired of the Coke-bottle effect on my revolver cases.

 

[Brad]

I may just make a steel sizer that gets me the tension I want but without the excess.
Won’t have taper but that doesn’t matter as much as having .008 less sizing

 

[quicksylver]

IT WILL DO THAT IN A RUGER BLACK HAWK THREE SCREW, THE BRASS IS REALLY THIN ,CARBIDE DIES DON'T HELP NON EITHER

 

[Rick]

What diameter does the 45 Colt RCBS Cowboy sizer take the brass down to?

 

[quicksylver]

CHECK EBAY FOR OLD DIES HE LY

I may just make a steel sizer that gets me the tension I want but without the excess.
Won’t have taper but that doesn’t matter as much as having .008 less sizing

CHECK EBAY FOR OLD LYMAN STEEL DIES

 

[Bill]

I use an old rcbs steel die, and I don't screw it all the way down

Bill

 

[RBHarter]

I currently have 4 sets of Colts dies and a spare sizer .

I had a pair of Rossi M92's with .490+ gross and .484 mouth into .450 groove in one and barely .451 sometimes on the other . The RCBS carbide as noted were completely over sizing everything even the .481 Ruger only got neck sized .

For a while I used a Lee 45 ACP FCD with the guys out for a sizer as it left the brass all at .479-.480 depending on brand and cycle count .
I haven't run many in the steel dies but I have 3 sizers to work with now . One of the 92's is being refitted with a new barrel chambered to at least share brass with the BlackHawk .

Full set each of Lyman AA circa 1974 and 82 RCBS with a spare Lyman ......long story , looked for a yr for them , ran an WTT/B in 2 places and ended up with 2 sets and a spare sizer .
As much as I hate to admit it I haven't encountered such issues with the Lee 45 S&W die set only sizes about .002 under fired cases nearly perfect for the .453 bullet needed .

 

[Brad]

Tried the Redding PC die. It barely sizes down brass from the Ruger. He expander on the Dillon doesn’t touch the inside of the case so neck tension would be very low.

My RCBS carbide die takes a .478-.479 case down to .469.

A die that gives .475 would be good with me. Only need to size .5” of the case for good bullet tension.

I have a few spare RCBS decap rods.....

 

[358156 hp]

Do you have a LEE 45 Colt Factory Crimp Die? Take the guts out of it and see what it sizes brass to. I've had to do this with various calibers throughout the ages.

I know. It's more fun to make it yourself

 

[Ian]

What's more fun is to make a tomato stake out of the rotten barrel and turn a new blank into one with a proper chamber and throat, then cut the dovetails etc. with a file and hot-water blue it.

 

[Charles Graff]

I went to oldl RCBS steel sizers years ago for all handgun rounds. The older the better. Better on brass life and a better fit of the loaded round in the charge hole. Still 45 Colt brass will work harden where the case is expanded for the bullet and split unless annealed from time to time.

 

[358156 hp]

I would imagine the work hardening would actually be worse with carbide dies since they size the brass so small. We seem to be on to something here!

 

[Sandspider500]

The Lee fcd for 45 colt sizes to .476

 

[Walks]

I've had good luck with an OLD Lyman Die set from the early 1960's. Never lost a Remington case yet.
The new starline cases start to crack at the mouth after 4-5 loadings. I use a Lyman M-die with minimal case mouth expanding and a Taper Crimp from C & H. And for the past 30+yrs I've only loaded light Cowboy stuff.
Although now that I no longer shoot Cowboy, I've gone back to loading the #454190. I use the old Lyman seat/crimp die. It works Perfectly for seating & crimping that old bullet. I think the old dies made for older guns work better, particularly in .45Colt and .44WCF.

I've never felt the need to load hot in .45Colt. I have a .44Mag for that.

 

[CZ93X62]

My too-aggressive 44 and 45 tungsten-carbide sizer die experiences prompted me to do a research project with the other T/C sizers I use, in 38/357 Magnum and 32 SWL/H&R/327. Good outcomes with both of those, the 38/357 sizes right on the money at .379", the 32 runs .335"-.336" (327 Fed has a bit more spring-back). Close enough, and brass life is good. A steel 32 SWL sizer gives .336" to 32 SWL brass.

The 45 ACP sizer is ridiculous--it sizes down to .467". The 45 Colt T/C die gets used for the 45 ACPs now (.469").

 

[Walks]

I have to agree with CZ. My 1975 RCBS Carbide & Old Lyman steel sizers in .38/.357 Do Not undersize the brass anywhere as far down as Newer .45Colt & a brand New Hornady T/C set in .44Mag/Spl.

 

[CZ93X62]

Follow-up on my most recent post--the 38/357 RCBS T/C die is stamped as "79" manufacture, the 32 SWL T/C die has an "81" stamp.

 

[Charles Graff]

All carbide sizers, regardless of caliber, except the new and expensive dual ring, produce a straight case as far down at the sizing ring goes on the case. The steel sizers produce a case that is one size at the neck, another larger size at the mid-point and a still slightly larger size at the base. This may or may not be important to you, but it is to me. My concern is not about case life, but fit of the loaded round in the cylinder charge hole. I find that case lubrication is a small price to pay for some extra accuracy and better case life is just gravy. I use steel sizers in 38 Special, 357 Magnum, 44 Special, 44 Magnum and 45 Colt. I still use a carbide sizer for 45 ACP, 45 Auto Rim and 45 Cowboy special, as they are truly straight cases and steel dies produce no dimensional difference. I use the same carbide die on all the short 45s, just change out the shell holders.

Additional notes; I have taken measurements on 38 Special cases of the same lot (Lake City 68), on my four RCBS dies from 1951 to 1957 and the cases come out .371-372 at the case mouth tapering down to .378-.379 just above the rim. I also have a Lyman Tru-Line jr. 38 Special sizer that produces case with .376 mouths tapering to .379 just above the rim. Obviously the extra .004 or .005 at the mouth will require less sizing and expanding, increasing case life.

There is also a wide variety of case neck expander sizes over the years, but that is another topic. Back in the day expanders were sized for lead bullet and not jacketed bullets.

 

[USSR]

I also use steel dies for .45 Colt. In addition I have several custom made expanders that give me the amount of case tension that I want.

Don