Patches tearing when sizing

[Will]

Let me start by saying I'm new to paper patching and so far it has been a pain in the butt.

I'm trying to get into paper patching for my muzzleloader. So far I haven't had much luck getting the bullets sized back down to .501 after patching.

I have tried tracing paper, printer paper and notebook paper. The bullets when patched measure around .503 to.505". I am trying to patch slick bullets sent to me by a member on another forum. They measure .494 before patching. The paper gets caught on the bottom of the ogive every time.

I have read many threads about shooters patching the lee 500 s&w bullet which is much larger diameter and running it back through a .501 die. So it must be something I'm doing wrong.

I'm trying to patch the accurate 50-325P



Anyone have suggestions on how to keep this from happening.

 

[KeithB]

I know absolutely zip about paper patching but I wonder about the shape and size of the chamfer/lead-in to your sizing die. Or maybe I'm not understanding your problem correctly.

 

[Will]

I've considered that to Keith. Thinking the angle into the die might need to be tapered more than it is.

 

[Brad]

The lead in angle needs to be pretty shallow and smooth.
What kind of sizer is it? If a Lee push thru that angle can be changed pretty easily. A Lyman/RCBS is much harder as they are short enough to not have room for a long tapered section.

 

[Will]

It's a lee

 

[RBHarter]

Sounds like a burr , lump ,burble etc or even a lead goober stuck to the die.

That seems like a pretty industrial patch to me . But my dabbling is all in small cal smokeless .
.011 is really thick .
Is the bullet an HB type ?
Are you wet or dry wrapping ?
Any lube on the patches for sizing ?

 

[Will]

I've tried wet patching, dry patching, and several different types of lube.

The thick one was from using printer paper. The tracing paper was just a little over .501.

The patches size great after tearing the paper on the ogive of the bullet. I honestly think the shape of this bullet does not help things at all.

 

[RBHarter]

I had a Lee push through that was hooking about every 3rd gas check .
It wasn't so much a burr as a hard edge in the change from taper to straight . It may have even been just a mark that was hanging up ran a little steel wool in it . Slick as greased glass .

 

[fiver]

besides looking for the edge in the die are you lubing the patches?
a little jpw or lanolin might help.

 

[Will]

I have tried Dillon case lube (lanolin) and imperial sizing wax

 

[Ian]

Don't post-size if you can help it. Either search out a thinner paper or pre-sized the core smaller. Post-sizing works best as a very, very minimal "kiss" to knock down the high fibers of the paper to make the bullets easier to load in a high-tension neck such as .308 Winchester or .270. When you compress the fibers too much before shooting, accuracy usually suffers.

Find yourself some green bar printer paper, two wraps wet will add about .008" when dry. It has less clay filler and anti-bleed compounds in it than notebook or printer paper and has more long fibers in it so is more tough. Green bar paper is meant for continuous-roll printing on a dot-matrix setup and is ideal for paper jackets. It's also a lot less abrasive to rifle barrels than the stuff meant for ink jet or liquid ink pens.

 

[fiver]

this is for black powder correct?
just making sure because black and smokeless don't follow the same rules as far as diameters and final sizing.
it sounds like your patching for a 50 cal. and shooting for about .001 initial engagement.

I would note the tear by marking a couple of bullets and the die then line them up so you can re-index everything as your looking for the problem after you remove the die.

 

[Will]

Well I have been messing with this again and I'm pretty sure the die needs polishing to start with. I can see rings from the tool used to cut the entry into the die.

Also after doing what I should have done to start with I have 2 options.

The tracing paper patched bullets measure .500 after drying. They will slide in the bore of my muzzleloader very loosely, just requiring the weight of the ramrod to be seated.

The I tried the printer paper wrapped bullets which will seat without tearing the patch, although very roughly.

When I get some time away from work I plan to shoot both and just see what happens. I'm hoping with the bullets being pure lead the tracing paper patched bullets will bump up and seal off the grooves.

Leave it to me to want to try and do something different that's complicated. Now that I've got it in my head though I won't stop till I get patched bullets shooting in my ML. Although with ML season opening up October 20th it may have to take a back seat for a month.

A member here has generously offered to send me some green bar printer paper. That will be something to try too.

If only I didn't have to work. That would sure speed these projects up. Thanks for all the help.

 

[fiver]

try the tracing paper ones first, I think your real close there.

 

[Ian]

Compressing the fibers will make the paper tear worse when it bumps. The tracing paper should work as long as the bullet will stay wedged against the powder column.

I don't know what kind of muzzle loader this is, but beware abrasive paper in soft barrels.

 

[fiver]

that;s why you wrap with the fibers facing down the barrel AIRC.
it tears in a straight line instead of a jagged edge.

 

[Ian]

Yup. When the paper's dry, hold the sheet horizontally and see which way it bends naturally. The direction that stays straight is the long fiber direction, which goes lengthwise with the bore. All continuous-process sheet paper (except toilet paper and chopped sawdust stuff like phone book pages) does this due to the way the machines lay out and stretch the fibers. The paper also shrinks more between the long fibers than along them.