Personal record for cylinder throats

Pistolero

Well-Known Member
Ok, I loaded up some fairly normal .38 WC loads, even slightly warmish,
because that is what the Square Deal was set on. Used Rem swaged HB
148 WCs seated just about 1/16th inch showing at the case mouth.

Five shots at 10 yds standing one handed landed just a touch below POA
with four in 2", and I think the jerk behind the trigger pulled one another inch
and a half lower. All well centered on the microscopic, nearly invisible sights.

Cases ejected with no trouble, moderately bulged, definitely reloadable, at least
one or two times.

So - Bubba was kinda a butthead, but the gun is still usable across the bedroom
with WCs for self defense, and probably has the same or maybe a bit more oomph than
the original caliber.

Still will think hard about opening up a .22 or .32 cyl and back to .38 S&W.

If anybody has an orphaned .22 or .32 J-frame cyl (or even better a .38 S&W I-frame cylinder!)
laying around gathering dust, let me know.

It will be interesting to see what it will do with regular .38 S&W ammo with .018 clearance
in the throats!

Bill
 
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Pistolero

Well-Known Member
IIRC the Terrier is the snub nose version of the Reg Police, is that correct?

I have two original Lyman molds with the first three digits 360, one longish RN and
one a short nosed SWC, both around 160 gr, IIRC. In my Colt Police Positive .38 S&W
with 5" bbl I have shot 1.5 and under five shot groups at 25 yds, very satisfying on a Colt
that I repaired. It had excessive end shake, enough to misfire, and the hand was short, would
not reliably line up the cylinder in slow cocking. Would make it on inertia if you did fast
double action. Fixed up, it shoots very well. When I first bought it, for $100, it was locked
up. Somebody had partially opened the side plate, parts had popped out of alignment and
they apparently chickened out, retightened the screws, jamming parts and locking the action.
That was easily fixed by pulling the side plate and figuring out how to properly put the parts
back in place. Still had issues, tho, as said above.

If I can find a Reg Police original cylinder that would be wonderful. But boring up a .22 and .32 shouldn't
be too difficult.

Bill
 
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JWFilips

Well-Known Member
My wife actually fired a bunch of "lead" HB wad cutters today I think they were the hornady swaged. They only made .358" in her .361" barrel but with 2 gr BE they actually shot pretty well but high in POA ( about 4"hight at 10 yds)
 

Pistolero

Well-Known Member
Up the charge and they will move down to closer to POA. I was using 3.8 TG, on the hot end,
especially for dead soft HB bullets. I imagine that at 3 gr you would see closer to the POA.

Bill
 

Ian

Well-Known Member
Yup. It's gonna be a wildcat anyway, just roll with it. I'm still interested to see if it can be engineered to use .357 Mag brass and .360+? bullets, maybe ream the cylinder to .385"?
 

Pistolero

Well-Known Member
The old girl has had enough metal cut already. I'll be either leaving it as is, and engineering
some ammo that it shoots well, or find a .22 or .32 J or I frame cylinder and put it back to
original. Of course, the ".38 Special S&W hybrid" cylinder will remain with it, too.

Going to try 148 gr cast solid WCs, see how they do, esp at more like 3.1 gr TG.

Bill
 

CZ93X62

Redlands, Kalifornistan
I am very fond of the 38 S&W cartridge, and presently have 4 of the things in the safe--Colt Police Positive x 4", S&W Regulation Police x 4" (these two are NRA 90% or better, they will stay intact), a S&W M&P 38/200 x 5" Lend-Lease, and a Webley-Enfield WWII service revolver. These latter 2 use the 200 grain NEI #169A bullet that is longer than the case it seats into. The Colt PP and the S&W M&P shoot the best owing to their decent sights and triggers, the RegPol is hampered by its vestigial sights, and the DAO Webley is......entertaining and poetic. The PP's throats are .359", the RegPol's throats are .361", and the 38/200s both have .363" throating.

.378" throating? I'll bet he fired 38 Special wadcutter ammo in the same manner 1895 Nagant 7.62 x 38R got fired--case neck as default "throat". Bubba can be scary and destructive.
 

Pistolero

Well-Known Member
I have loaded, but not yet tested some .357 mag cases with flush seated
wadcutters. The cases are about 1/16th short of the front of the cyl or
less, so should work exactly as you say, to fill the throat entirely with
brass. Should be better accy.
The cylinder was just drilled out with a 3/8 drill bit to accept .38 spl cases,
a really sad thing to do.

Bill
 
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CZ93X62

Redlands, Kalifornistan
One of the guys in our old Burrito Shoot bunch has one of the S&W Lend-Lease 38 S&Ws that had its charge holes opened up in similar fashion to accept 38 Special cases/ammo. The fired cases look like fat 32/20s, owing to the 38 S&W's wider specs of .386" near the rim vs. the .379" of 38/357. It shoots all right, but I have no idea about brass life. Neck-sizing might be the route to take.
 

Pistolero

Well-Known Member
I need to see what the .357 cases/cylinder liners do for the old girl. That should be the solution. We'll see.

I picked up a too long .38 Spl J-frame cylinder, and may go ahead and shorten it to see
how a proper .38 Spl chamber, and a short cylinder with very short, but properly dimensioned
throats will do.

Bill
 
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fiver

Well-Known Member
I just happened to catch an article somewhere on these little guns.
there is kind of a cult following of this round, but there seems to be 2 trains of thought in what they like.
one is they were sighted in with a 146gr RN bullet and the other is with a 200gr bullet like the 38/200 round the British used.
a couple of guy's are having real good accuracy with the ol' 148gr. hollow base wad cutter bullets at about 650 fps.
 

Pistolero

Well-Known Member
This one is going to be a 357mag case low pressure wadcutter only affair unless I can find a. 38 S&W cyl for cheap.If I cut down and install the. 38 Spl cylinder, it should be able to do well with ordinary .38 Spl wadcutter ammo. The HB WCs will likely fit the bbl better, too.
 
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CZ93X62

Redlands, Kalifornistan
Lamar--right after I got the S&W M&P I tried loading some Hornady 148 HBWCs into 38 S&W cases atop 3.0 grains of WW-231, with OAL of 1.150". Expanding with 38 S&W die set allowed the bullets to slip without any retention very loosely. The 38 Special expander spud was too long to allow for case mouth flaring. What did sort-of-work was no expansion after resizing, and a Lee Loader flaring tool from the 38 Special set I started this hobby with in 1976. The bullets were still a bit loose upon seating, and a moderate roll crimp snugged things up.

In shooting, the HBWCs were not as accurate as the NEI #169As had been, and the throats and bores were leaded a bit after 50 rounds. We are dealing with .363" throats here. I suspect that the little Colt PP with its .359" throats might be more amenable to the HBWCs seated out but still short of the cylinder face. Run to 700 FPS or so, they might hit where the sights look--#358477s of similar weight print in that manner at 25 yards. Just a guess, this last bit.
 

fiver

Well-Known Member
I like the 477 mold.
one of them I have pours some pretty large diameter bullets, they are quite the workout in the 358 size die.

we all know of course proper diameter will always shoot the best.
just sometimes a guy don't have the stuff to get there right off, and ends up cobbling together whatever he has or can get ahold of easily.

I think a lot of these guns were altered because it was easier to ream out the length than it was to get a mold and a size die especially for someone that doesn't cast.
I'm sure jacketed 357 bullets go down the pipe okay and might even hit a tin can most of the time making the owner a lot happier.
 

Pistolero

Well-Known Member
My bet is that the guy who drilled it out dropped in some factory .38 wadcutter ammo, and that
was that. Probably couldn't get .38 S&W ammo at his local Kmart so got out his drill, since "can't
get that ammo any more".
 

CZ93X62

Redlands, Kalifornistan
"Cult following".......yeah, kinda. Not to the degree of the 32 caliber handgun fans (a cult which I am a life member of), but there are adherents out there. Not everyone likes getting their hand hammered with 44 Magnum recoil, and there are calibers now that relegate Elmer's 44 to middleweight status. Not everyone wants or needs a self-loading pistol that starts out with 17 rounds on board, either. The 32 Long and the 38 S&W harken back to a simpler time, before endurance and pain tolerance became a feature of handgun shooting. The 38/200 loads are a bit more than their 146 grain caliber counterparts, but are still quite docile and can be fired all day if you are so inclined.