Powders, old friends and newcomers

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Petrol & Powder

Well-Known Member
I tend to favor the old, well-established powders. During some of the previous droughts I was forced (like many) to branch out and explore new powders. That was probably healthy, but I went right back to the old, well-known friends when that exercise was over.

While I’m happy to see innovation in the field of smokeless powder, and the only way to move forward is to explore, I’m pretty old school when it’s all said and done.

I’ve tried lots of different powders over the years and occasionally, I have found something new that works very well. However, more often than not, I find myself back with one of the old standards.

While having options is good, the perceived improvements claimed by some powders just aren’t there. For example, I’ve burned just about every type of suitable powder one can put in a 38 Special casing but always came back to either WW-231 or Bullseye. While there are lots of powders that work, none stand out as significantly better than those two old powders and several were noticeably worse. I’ve shot more 231 [AKA HP-38] than Bullseye but Bullseye has the advantage of being slightly more economical and maybe holds an accuracy edge. Bullseye is my current powder of choice for 38 Special, and it’s been with us since 1898. WW-231[HP-38] isn’t quite as old as Bullseye but it has been around as long as I can remember.

I behave the same way with rifle powders. I typically find the IMR powder best suited for the cartridge, work up the best load with that powder and never look back.

There was a time when I thought the newly introduced powders must be better. Why would someone make a new powder that wasn’t better than the existing powder? As I get older, I realize that “New and Improved” is often just “New”.

So, for all you folks that like to experiment with powders, keep up the good work; we’re all interested in what you learn. We will never move forward if we remain in our old familiar habits. All I ask is if your testing reveals results that are no better than the old standards, let us know that too.
 
glassparman

glassparman

"OK, OK, I'm going as fast as I don't want to go!"
I like that you mentioned something some people don't know: Win 231 is the same as HP-38.

I even heard it comes from the same vats. I can't prove that but both do well for me in 45 auto and 9mm Luger and chrono the same.

I have always tried to stock up on my favorites while they are available. I also have some odd balls for rainy days just waiting for me to try them out.
 
Winelover

Winelover

North Central Arkansas
Bullseye is no longer more economical than W-231, nowadays. Recently, purchased an 8-pound jug of W-231 because of the nearly $100 price difference.

Always went with Alliant/Hercules powders for pistols. Not so much anymore with the shortages. For rifles, it was pretty much Accurate brands because of the cost difference.
 
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Petrol & Powder

Well-Known Member
I would have to do the math but some of the savings attached to Bullseye come from the small charge weights per round required.
At a $12.50 per pound difference ($100 per 8 pounds) I suspect you are correct that 231 would be cheaper per round, even with greater per round charge weights of powder.
 
CWLONGSHOT

CWLONGSHOT

Well-Known Member
I mirror you thoughts on powders. (New)

I like what I have used and experience with. But today with the discontinuation of old favorites we need to branch out.
One welcome addition is temp INSENSITIVE powders. Not tech "new" but newer then my experience.
I have only branched out on my own once. It worked out well. (Power Pistol) But I have started using "new" powders on a number of calibers thru others coaxing and reading repeated positive experiences.

Just recently I tried Winchester sta-Ball in a 30/06. I picked up a few pounds to try a few years back and just never tried it. It didnt "wow me" but it did produce very good velocities and behaved well. Accuracy was good not exceptional. But this was one bullet one rifle on one day. Ill load more and try again.
I had simular experience first time I tried TAC. Not a super new powder but I call it new. It gave excellent velocity and good accuracy. I have started trying in a few calibers.

Power Pistol has WOWED me. No doubt! I first tried in 10mm's
when my fav Blue Dot was discontinued. I got better velocities with lower (no visible) pressure signs! Combined with all the accuracy I was used to. I tried it in a couple calibers and have experienced the same. I will do my darnedest not to ever run out.

CW
 
Fiddler

Fiddler

Active Member
I'm in the process of using up some of the 'new and improved' powders and returning to the old stand bys.
Had to toss a 1/4 can of 4166 Enduron that went bad, less than 10 yrs old. I'll keep the Titegroup, seems work well.
 
J

Jeff H

NW Ohio
Excellent essay!

I've stuck with what has worked since before I was born (for the most part) BECAUSE it works, and I've not seen any significant reason to stray from them other than their scarcity and pricing. I just don't see any of the "new and improved" offering anything more than DIFFERENT, but I strayed from Unique and Bulllseye for the 45 ACP in the early nineties and got a really pleasant surprise.

W231/HP38 was suggested to me by a trusted 45 ACP nut for what I perceived to be mythical reasons on the surface, but he was right. I strayed from Unique to Herco some time after that for 44 Special loads and now Herco would be my go-to powder for the 44 Special, IF I could FIND/AFFORD it.

So, even when I got away from the trusted trio of Bullseye, Unique and 2400, I didn't stray all that far. Could not get 2400 the last time I needed to restock and ended up going with Alliant 300MP. Works VERY well for magnum loads, but not nearly as versatile as 2400. THAT's about as modern as I've gotten with powders to date.

My cynical side suggests that there's a lot of marketing impetus behind some new powders.
 
RicinYakima

RicinYakima

High Steppes of Eastern Washington
The two driving factors, as I see it, is cost and availability. You can't use it if you can't buy it, nor afford it is a similar one is available.

For the last 5+ years, Accurate Powders were available. Now no longer, only Hodgdon now that they bought the line.
 
KeithB

KeithB

Resident Half Fast Machinist
richhodg66 said:
For handguns, never really saw much use for anything but Bullseye, Unique and 2400.
Click to expand...

Pretty much what I've used. I'll add HP-38/231 as a Bullseye substitute, and 4227 for 2400 in magnum loads. I have other powders I've picked up and use but I could get by with the first three.

Of course nowadays you use what you can get, but there is a reason the first three have been around for so long - they just flat out work.
 
B

Bronco72

New Member
I am also a stick in the mud about changing powders! The only two I changed that come to mind is once I could not find any Bullseye. Read the powder burn charts and some load recipes and bought some WST, it is about a 1 to 1 change for Bullseye and I think it burns cleaner. The other was with 2400. Was going to use in in reloading 410's but found it hard on hull life. Went with 300mp. The rest of the powder I have stuck with for 56 years will continue to work for me :)
 
TXTad

TXTad

Active Member
I paid more than I was comfortable with for a keg of Unique late last year. That gives me enough to last a very long time now that I only use it for specific loads, such as my Skeeter loads.

Most of my .38 Special, light .357, and .45 ACP is now W244. That's a new powder I will be sticking with.

I'm going to try Staball 6.5 in .22-250, .243, and 7mm-08 because I didn't already have much on hand of old school powders for those cartridges. I hope it works out well because I bought a lot of it recently.

I will continue to load 748 in .308, RL 22 in .340 Wby, WC 852 in 6.5x55, and WC 846 in 7.62x51 FMJ loads, because I have a lot of those on had with which I have already developed loads for these cartridges.

Full-power .357 and .44 Mag will continue to get 296.

I guess I still have my old friends and hang out with them when they're around, but now I have a lot of new friends too!
 
Joshua

Joshua

Taco Aficionado/Salish Sea Pirate/Part-Time Dragon
richhodg66 said:
For handguns, never really saw much use for anything but Bullseye, Unique and 2400.
Click to expand...
Fast, medium, and magnum. That’s really all I need for pistols. I do it with WST, Herco, and 2400. Those are the powders that I found cheap, in bulk, and available when I was looking.

I would have no problem using Zip, AA No. 5, and Enforcer, if that was all that was available, for my garden variety pistol loading. Now these are trickier for cast rifle bullet loading, as there is far less if any published load data for these powders in 30-06 or 30-30.

The older powders may be more desirable to some because there is so much more cast data out there.

TXTad said:
I'm going to try Staball 6.5 in .22-250, .243, and 7mm-08 because I didn't already have much on hand of old school powders for those cartridges. I hope it works out well because I bought a lot of it recently.
Click to expand...
I bought 8 pounds of AA4350 for my 7mm-08 (because it was available). It works just fine. But, I’m interested in the ballistics they have been claiming can be attained with the Staball 6.5. I don’t need it. It’s just silly, I have a good load, that kills well, is accurate, and enough powder to last for a while. I DON’T NEED IT. I may want more performance, but I don’t need it.

I got into this game later than most of you. I’m using what is cheaper and available. I lucked into a few good deals. And, paid way too much for some other powders.

With the constant shortages, and high prices we have been experiencing, I have adopted a “make it work with what I have” attitude around powder. I really don’t care if it’s new or old.
 
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