Primer pocket question

[Intheshop]

Old H&R,30-30 here with...maybe not enough "excess" headspace to cause FTF on factory ammo.I haven't measured,but it is long.When handloading for it,finding a jam length was all it took to show up on paper.Acc with cast was so much better"jammed"...that it's S.O.P


Will say,you can probably find more dope on the subject studying the TC break opens.

 

[Ian]

Rimmed cartridges are rather self-limiting. I doubt you have headspace issues at all with a .30-30 unless the barrel and breech have a gap.

 

[Intheshop]

Yes,on the gap being on the deep edge of specs.Doesn't show up,so much with full power factory loads.Well,it does but...it "works".It's acts up when firing reduced loads 'cause the case isn't grabbing the chamber?Indicated by backed out primers.

Just sayin,jam load fixed the issue.

 

[fiver]

I think Ian was pointing out the 30-30 head spaces on the rim.
I treat my bolt actions like regular rifles in that regard and allow the case to fill the chamber.
the lever guns not so much.

 

[Intheshop]

Many ways to headspace a cartridge.The advantage of the OP's single shot....at least in my experience,is the ability to jam OAL and have it set headspace....with the critical part being,not affecting any repeating operations of the action.

I can only load certain bolts to jam OAL .Depends on magazine length (long actions almost always better than short in this point),and how it cycles.

Break open single shots,irrespective of rim style...HR'S and TC's,work well with appropriate loads,jamming the boolit.We have a bone stock TC..7mm Rem mag brrl that is right at the edge of being out of spec.This headspaces on the belt?Shows up as case separations on factory ammo.

Just sayin,the single shots give you some choices,that other action styles may not.Carry on.

PS,it's nice to see the interest in the Handi's,and HR'S.Some are tackdrivers.

 

[S Mac]

When I get my cases properly fireformed would I then need to back my full length sizer off a bit to avoid pushing the shoulder back to far again?

 

[Intheshop]

You're going to need a "repeatable" way to measure.Look at the saami prints for your specific cartridge.Look at where the datum line is on the case length.That is right place to measure from.

But that in my pea brain isn't as important as the repeatability.Meaning,I think .308 family is measured at .400 on the shoulder(check this,CRS may kick in for me)...there are any number of tools that are provided that get you there.Common ones go on a set of dial calipres.

But if you have a fireformed case,that measuring point only needs to be close on the datum point.What's more important IMO,is repeatability.Bumping back the shoulder .001's is the notion...each chamber/rifle/load will sometimes show a preference .For example,one of my 700's needs it at .001-2 bump.But one Savage 110 likes .005.

We make our own sleeves or rings to measure from...go to the "prints".

 

[Intheshop]

An example,assuming .400" is in fact correct...if you had a .40 SW lube size die.This could be used,slipped over the neck of a .308....it might be .401,.400,whatever.It's close enough to make a comparison from,as fired...to settings on your "full length sizing die" for whatever bump you're looking for.IF IT'S CONVENIENT.Back to repeatedly being able to measure it.

 

[Intheshop]

Also look into annealing.Just like different lead alloys drop different sizes from the same mould....

As brass work hardens,it's spring back changes not only during firing but also during case sizing.Just to throw one more consideration into the mix.

For years I didn't bother with annealing.But cases were cheap.Once they got $$$,I started annealing.Dang if it doesn't show up on paper(accuracy),for the better.

If it's convenient,start thinking about annealing.Our setup was basically free,meaning it doesn't have to be complicated.

 

[Ian]

When I get my cases properly fireformed would I then need to back my full length sizer off a bit to avoid pushing the shoulder back to far again?

Yes. It's called "partial sizing" with a full-length die, where you just kiss the case shoulder to knock it back a thousandth or two and squeeze the case body enough that it easily re-chambers, i.e. slip fit with preferably no significant wiggle.

 

[Tony]

S Mac,

I agree with Ian. You can also experiment with spacers/shims under the die lock ring. Redding makes a Competition Shell Holder Set. A standard shell holder is nominally + .000". The Redding competition set has 5 SH's that increase loaded cartridge head space (length to datum line) in + .002" increments. I have and use 3 of these sets and will likely buy a couple more.

 

[Chris]

While measuring to the datum line is the precise way, you can get darn close by blackening the case neck with marker. Incrementally adjust the die downward... the die usually polishes the black off and if you are careful and have good light you can see where you want to be. But measuring is the best way.

 

[RBHarter]

Here's another stick in your coffee .
If a fellow loads say 3 different 30-06's that each have their own chamber quirks , like all 3 meet spec but not 1 of 9 possible combinations will share brass, it becomes tough without a special high dollar bushing die for each rifle to set this up.
In my example 1 is all but a match chamber ,I seriously believe it was the last chamber with that finish reamer . A standard RCBS FL die has to have a 2" cam over or more at the bottom of the stroke to make full contact with the whole case as fired. Meanwhile a 2nd Remington made GI rifle is a wiggle fit with a normal set up, and factory will actually rattle until the bolt is fully locked . Savages contribution fits well on factory bases but is fat shouldered . By enough that the shoulder hits the die with .15 of the neck sized.

The only way to get these 3 to play nice is bushing dies or collet neck dies or set up a 2nd FL die to only size .2 of the neck and whatever else it hits .
As I type this I just remembered that I have a spare 308 set and that would allow me to now bump part of the shoulder . Since it is a Lee die set I could actually get it cut for the lowest angle shoulder and be able to bump the 03 and Savage every other cycle instead of a soft FL every 5th.

Carry on just thinking out loud....

 

[Ian]

Harter, that sounds like my .45 Colts, .30-30s, and .308s. Once I find a rifle or handgun style I like, in a caliber I like, I tend to buy more of them. Problem is, production tolerances are all over the map and it seems that (lucky me) I always fall into owning an example of both extreme ends of the spectrum. Just recently I had to revamp my entire loading routine and change bullet styles to get three 300 Blackouts to be able to share ammunition and any of them still group better than minute of berm. I flat gave up on getting my .30-30s and .45 Colts to share ammo. My .45 ACPs have to be loaded to the lowest common denominator, and two of them which share ammo will ONLY function with RN or TC bullets...nothing with a step at the base of the nose like an SWC.

I can see myself eventually phasing out the oddballs, either by rebarreling, rechambering, or if I don't love the gun enough to do that, replacing them.

 

[RBHarter]

I have a couple that would be gone in a minute for the right 98s or 110s . The ACPs at this point don't seem to be too fussy in spite of being just short of spread over a century .

If I could match every 98 and long action to 4 reamers in 7x57, 280 Rem ,9x57 and/or 2 35/358s I be bored to tears but happy .

 

[Intheshop]

110's..."junk yard dogs".

Which,if you really dig into their history,are brilliant...doesn't make'm any prettier however.I do like the older,flat top versions better.Getting old,I remember when,or maybe better stated,before folks realized they had adj headspace...we'd pick them up on the cheap.Still ugly as all get out.

 

[RBHarter]

LoL ... 700s & 98s go to the Prom , but the dorky band geeks knew how keep house and feed a family ....er....um 110s don't mind getting scuffed up and nobody looks down on 1 with a $100 scope on it . Put a Tasco pronghorn on any model 70 and everyone looses their minds ,but i think maybe I've seen 2 Savages of any flavor with over $600 in glass on them 1 a 243 that I personally saw put 73 of 100 on a steel man at a measured 750 yd with several shooters other than its person . Goodsteel had a hand in that rifle too.

 

[Intheshop]

RB,couldn't agree more.

I'm in a mood,haha.Get this;DA customer brings me a slab of,cut in the 30's,Va Black walnut.They,cause his wife says so...doh.Want a water bourne finish on this,admittedly drop dead gorgeous"live edge" top....it's on a narrow hall table.Distressed painted legs set.

Fancy neighborhood in Norfolk...what can I say?Customer is always wrong,wait...that's right?

So shooting WB clear...has me questioning life.Kinda like a 110?How/why do these"things" shoot so well?

 

[RBHarter]

A master smith told me it is because the bbls are turned on their center vs the mat'l then squared and that the way they square the breach end to the threads leaves the bbl almost impossible to not be square to the action . The bolt head ,action faces and bbl center get all of the attention or about 75% of the QC . That's why they shoot despite the looks .

No accounting for taste . 1 of the 92s has this really nice burle butt stock ........dyed and buried in a nearly black finish .......very sad .

 

[Intheshop]

Going out in left field....past the bleachers,past the parking lot...

Go look at some stupid,and I mean really $$$ shotgun stocks.For some strange reason I can clear a sporting clays range,as such,a cpl times a year get the invite to go blast clays up at the Greenbrier.

In their gun library are 30k$ shotguns....not like they're the only facility sporting such "wood".I'll never forget taking my four little sons into a high end shop,somewhere in our travels.Perfect gentleman as I showed them these drop dead gorgeous two pce,shotgun stocks.The emphasis on God's handiwork...think slobbering figured wood.

It was later that I figured out how those,mostly middle aged,Italian women "enhanced" the natural beauty in those blanks.It's that whole,if I told you,would have to kill....thing.Think dye,eye liner,and drop dead gorgeous Italian women.