Problem Smelting Wheel Weights

[quicksylver]

Hi guys..I think this question has been asked before..but here we go again..

I am not new to this so it has 'kinda taken me by surprise...

I had a bunch of old wheel weights given to me along with a bunch of other lead..

I thought I would smelt some the last couple of days since the weather has been a little damp..

The wheel weights I started with were some that look mostly unused , little to no smoke..nice..the first batch went pretty well..they melted fine , I fluxed a couple of thimes , took out the clips. they were nice and clean..
I poured them into ingot and started a second batch..

This batch I mixed a couple of lots that I had....they melted sort of ..but there was a lot of slurry mixed in..I fluxed a couple of times but it didn't seem to do much good.. I picked the clips out one at a time ..they were covered with a tin layer of alloy...I got them all out and refluxed..the slurry was still there..so I said to heck with it and skimmed the it off and poured what was left into ingots...

So before trying this again I thought it would be a brilliant idea to run it by you guys to see what you had to say..I am 'kinda thinking my temp may have been a little too low...but again first batch great second batch not worth mentioning...Dan

 

[Ian]

Are you "smelting" in your casting pot?

What I see looks like a big wad of oxides and dirt there, coated with half-melted alloy. You didn't get that in your first batch because the alloy was a lot cleaner. You say you "fluxed" but not what you actually used or how much, which can make a big difference here. I do see solitary chisel shaving on the edge of the pot and a few more in the scrap can, but not much ash so I'm guessing you didn't use wood shavings for flux.

The metal oxides won't melt so you have to either reduce them or skim and toss. It takes some heat to shake oxidized gunk and clean alloy off the clips, so try 700F and a half a cup of pine shavings on top once you get it liquid again. Once the shavings start smoking good throw a match in there and set it on fire. Stir with a long-handled spoon while it's burning to expose the lumpy crud to the oxidizing atmosphere and watch your lumpy mess disappear as you bring it to the top with a spoon over and over. Skim the charcoal and remaining floating crud when it gets about half burned down to ashes.

 

[JWFilips]

Dan,
I run up the temps to 700-720 deg then flux 3 times with saw dust pouring the alloy through the layer of formed charcoal. But I skim off my clips first before fluxing.
Did you clip test the pieces? I always do because I'm anal like that! I do know if the alloy is lower I have seen it like mush before. Luckily I have never seen the wrath of Zinc mush!
Jim

 

[quicksylver]

Ian....Three treatments of pine shavings and bees wax in about 7 lbs alloy..using the process you described..

 

[JWFilips]

One of my best smelting teachers posted as I was writing! He explains it better Thanks Ian!

 

[quicksylver]

Jim...may have yo get a new pot..710 is about as high as this old girl will go..got it used in the mid sixties.

 

[JWFilips]

I do know when I had some mushy stuff I also added a lump of dried white pine sap! Worked get but smokes like heck

 

[Ian]

700 should be plenty, but 650 probably isn't. Give it another go, there's lots of paint, salt corrosion, etc. on those weights in the bucket and I'm not surprised you had a little difficulty getting it to clean up at only 650.

WW alloy is plenty enough melted at 650 to pour bullets, BUT it takes a little more heat than that for the chemistry of the redox process to work and get all that oxidized, lumpy, thick mess reduced to clean liquid alloy and ash.

There is an off chance you got a zinker in there, but even if you did you still got other problems with massive amounts of oxides bound up with melted alloy.

 

[JWFilips]

Dan,
I think you are talking to the right man!
Jim

 

[300BLK]

Do yourself a favor and spend $50 for a propane turkey fryer. Add a dutch oven and smelt away. Use your clean ingots in the electric furnace.

 

[quicksylver]

Got all the right equipment. .didn't want to set it up for 10 to 14 lbs that I had time for today. ....just never ran into this situation when doing a small pot ..just fluxed with shavings a couple three times skimed and either cast some pistol bullets or ingots....

 

[quicksylver]

Just read the thread "Does zinc Make Bullets Smaller.".think I got into a bunch of COWW with zinc...does look and act like oatmeal...

 

[Rick]

Zinc melts at 787 degrees which is the purpose of melting WW at 700 degrees. Kinda doubtful that at your 650 you melted any zinc weights.

 

[Ian]

Zinc melts at 787 degrees which is the purpose of melting WW at 700 degrees. Kinda doubtful that at your 650 you melted any zinc weights.

Almost......... Zink (pardon spelling, my finger won't spell it the American way for some reason) WW are probably an alloy, since the pure metal is so difficult to cast. Alloying the zinc lowers the melt point considerably, but it should still be a few degrees over 700. In retrospect to my earlier comments, I doubt it would have been possible to get a zink WW to dissolve into the mixture at 650. I'm certain that the contamination I have came from the lead alloy WW themselves, not from an errant weight. I say this because my smelter is wood-fired and barely gets hot enough to flux, and takes a long time to get there after all the clips are skimmed along with the occasional missed zink weight, but I still got slight contamination. Dan could be experiencing the same thing by having introduced contaminants already blended with some of the scrap he used.

 

[quicksylver]

Maybe these will help..I've never seen this before..(the coloring)

 

[quicksylver]

A better picture ..anyone want it ..free shipping..?

 

[Ian]

The coloration is from the lead and heat, a lot of heat. I see that a lot when casting round balls etc. out of lead that is as near pure as I can get, and also running the pot near 800F to get good fills.

My guess is you froze the antimony out of it (those grainy clumps) and after skimming those out now you have mostly pure lead, and with extra heat at the bottom of the pot it turned purple.

 

[fiver]

I had to look closely to see what was going on here.
but I'm seeing what Ian is seeing.
first not enough heat to allow everything to go to a good liquid state that would release the gunk from the alloy.
then too much heat at the bottom of the pot.

 

[quicksylver]

Thanks guys ...pretty much what I came up with..the pot is on it's way out ...do I HAVE to get a Lee 4-20..

I really like this old Saeco 10# er..I don't do volume casting...I like small lots of good bullets..Dan

PS thanks for all the input really appreciate it..Dan

 

[fiver]

I don't know about replacing the pot you might be able to resituate that one.
the part that tells the band how hot to get might just need adjustment or replaced.
I had to do a partial re-wire and adjust the 'points' in my lee not too long ago.