Recoil pulse

[Intheshop]

External ballistics aside....please correct the following.

A heavier boolit has more recoil.It's a physics thing.

Now,the real question is about burn rates on powder.A "slower" powder,which may be better stated,pressure curve/rise...has a noticeable effect on the recoil pulse?

The weight and balance of the rifle(could be a handgun?) is or,comes into the mix.As rifle weight goes down,think light sporters' with skinny brrls,....the longer,in time,the pulse is...the easier it is to manage your"hold".

So,you may not be able to patently say,use the "slowest" powder appropriate to that pkg....but the "softest" pressure rise/curve that produces the target velocity and accuracy?

Dang it,gotta go sand some stupid *** hdwd flooring.

 

[RBHarter]

Very complex physics question/statement.

The longer bbl dwell time results in more movement before the bullet exits the muzzle
Flat acceleration results in longer dwell time vs shock acceleration.
Think of it like 2 cars that break the quarter mile lights at 100 mph . 1 is a big block land yacht it takes 16 seconds to get there . The 2nd car is a KB blown Hemi with 1 shift doing 90 mph at the 60 foot line and is running at little than an idle for the last 1320 feet and gets there in just shy of 11 seconds .

It's the same relationship using Unique vs H322 for 1200 fps from a 45 Colts rifle . The H322 is a long flat curve suited to a heavy bullet and lower pressures. Meanwhile the Unique is mostly spent in 4-6" but the lighter bullet still gets the 1200 fps . Of course we're talking about .007 vs .0072 seconds in the bbl . (Arbitrary number for demonstration only)
You still have the equal and opposite reaction to work with which would be assertive in a 3.5 lb Contender like carbine but hardly a bark in a 7# bolt gun .

Load for load action choice and weight have a big bearing on the recoil pulse . Think of an 1 1/2 oz 3 in mag in a H&R single vs an A5 or 1100 or a pump . Having shot all 3 I don't believe I'd like to shoot a limit of honkers with the H&R but the after season massacre with extended mags and no rules wouldn't be bad with an A5 mag (the old one not the new gas gun).

We haven't tried to look at the particulars of muzzle energy matches for light and fast vs slow and fat and that change in recoil .

 

[Ian]

Choosing a powder on the slow end for the cartridge and a heavy bullet will deliver good velocity and energy to the target and be "soft shooting" compared to other load options, but barrel dwell time gives you as the rifle mount part of the system more opportunity to screw up the follow through. "Barrel time" of the bullet can be significantly increased or decreased through powder selection.

Target loads requiring neither energy nor velocity (i.e. not sillywet games) are best served with powders in the pistol/shotgun burn range.

 

[Intheshop]

Generally everything,physics speaking has to run through my "archery speak".So,even though it may be painfully obvious to some....if I can't process it,stored energy vs projectile weight,and how that translates to the critical time(internal ballistics)....then,my brain defaults.

We have long skinny stabilizers,and short stubbys.And....none.We "put up" with lengths because of either rules or circumstances.But generally,the shorter the stabilizer,the better everything else has to be.

So,considering my hunting rifles...trying to expand the "hold" window.

 

[Ian]

You have to follow through with a bow, too, if you want to hit your target. Same principle.

 

[Intheshop]

Swing baby!

Where does excess energy end up?Or maybe better stated how do you manage the shock?Once the arrow/bullet has "left the building"...things are a bit different.Light=fatigue.

 

[RBHarter]

Well in that case .
We will apply the how do you want to arrive at the target principal. It's like shooting a long draw long or recurve with a 4-500 gr ash shaft with a fixed broadhead with bleeders vs a compound of the same draw weight but with a 200 gr expanding broad head . The arrow launch lasts half as long on the compound as the long bow . I suspect that the Ash shaft would shoot ok in the compound ( think heavy for cartridge bullets here with fast powders) the graphite shaft probably won't shoot for beans in the long bow at full draw . We've all seen the slow motion video . To beat the curve in a rifle you would choose an appropriate aluminum shaft with a lighter broadhead for the compound and a heavier for the long bow .

From my breaker points and carburator point of view , the long bow or Recurve is a lot like slow fat powders there is a ton of stored energy but it can't be released fast enough to keep up with the light bullet but in any event it has a long slow push and possibly all the way to the fletches hitting the rest. Shooting faster powders is like stepping over to the compound and having a short fast release with a cam jump but only casting 15" of a 32" draw .

Lord that made my head hurt . It's been a while since I shot bows . The killer may have been getting that synthetic turkey feather bar out of my fore finger . I loved the semi old school shooting . I shot 32" 11/32 cedar with 3 @ 4x3/4 helical fletches and a 125 gr Bear broadhead with razor bleeders in a 48# 58" Bear Grizzly. I subbed a 125gr field point for practice. I can't remember what aluminum shaft I used now ....... Flu-flu's and adders would break up some bones in up to 10# fowl .

Glory days indeed .......... Actually I think I only did it to stay away from X1 .........

 

[Intheshop]

The critical time is the same for both,it's between actual release (trigger pull on gun).
....and when arrow leaves the bow.

In guns,it's from trigger pull to bullet exiting the brrl.Locktime,ignition,powder burn,brrl time.

Heavy BR style stocks soak up recoil,and accept torque better because of usually and unusually wide forend bttms.Heavy brrls and all that.The BR folks want extremely consistent metering of powder,great light-a-bility,and pretty much the highest vel possible.And other things,I get that.

In hunting pkgs,a lot of that doesn't matter.I'm not loading in the woods so metering is mute.Vel. is hugely important obviously along with acc.It's specifically how the recoil effects that critical time that concerns me.Torque and time effects.

What goes on during bench testing is a window into field craft.But,we all know it isn't completely transferred.Considering rests are usually completely different.Here's where archery generally has the advantage.We don't have BR "rests".It's also is why rifle position shooters have better field craft.

 

[Intheshop]

Have done a bunch of reading and studying shotgun "fit".So have good solid info on ergos.

Think I'm gonna start really studying position shooting skills.That,and using the sling more when testing hunting rigs on our Buds bags.So far,it's only been used in offhand applications.

 

[RBHarter]

Think about the bow tuning . Spine matching ,lot matching basic and finished shafts , lotted points , micrometer dampers wheel matching.......... Even with the best parts a field bow will need some little tweek to put 5 in the heart core at 10-35 yd .

When you set the parameters in the OP you opened up the variations of interior ballistics . Good grief thats a box of snakes that can start with a +- 6 second case head detent index and indexed primers that are weigh lotted and get complicated from there . The most important thing in field shooting after having the best matched load in 20 rounds more than you expect to need is the operator management . If you sling wrap on the range you need to do it in the field ,same for flat palm or vertical grip .

I took it so far a few yr ago as to pound down a monster and run to the 100 and back then shoot kneeling knee/elbow rest ,switch knees , sitting knee elbow rest , standing elbow tucked in the hip and the wrist for arm post/tree rest . 10 shots , trot to check the target and repeat at 200 and 250 then as you might imagine huffing wind like a freight train and my head spinning from the caffeine/sugar overload I'd shoot 1 each at a 300-400yd unknown range spot called by a shooting partner that was sure I had a death wish . Worst of 5 on the called target bought lunch .
Why ?
It was the best way I could think of to cause target panic/buck fever. It worked . The buddy shot his 9x7 268 B&C 5 times at 75 yd with a perfect textbook broad side onside leg forward and I shot my doe once at 125 quartering away . He lost about 5# of back strap and part of a ham and most of 1 shoulder , I lost about a cup of hamburger .
We get 1 tag by lottery draw .

 

[Intheshop]

Buck fever vs stage fright.

The latter is what "we" created with 3D archery to simulate the first.What a shooter can do on his home range with familiar surroundings is one thing.Compared to shooting say,a tie breaking shot in front of hundreds of competitors.

Am reading Army marksmanship and Olympic rifle stuff now.The stock fit effects how straight back I pull the trigger...and the natural point of aim.

 

[popper]

A heavier boolit has more recoil.It's a physics thing. No, it's a momentum thing and it is physics. Felt recoil can be changed by slower powders, a 'G force' effect. Dwell time and our reaction to felt recoil (& boom) affect our accuracy.

 

[Intheshop]

Got some shooting in with the heavy BR rest today.22-250 with IMR4895.

Gun has a pencil brrl and a forend to match.The Fr bag is a leather protektor that fits old 700V walnut stocks perfectly.But this Savage is so thin it wiggles.

But the 4895 has such a sweet pulse,which is what started all this....albeit with a different rig.At least with certain loads( different powders)same boolit,same velocities....you can feel the way the rifle has a softer pulse.

 

[freebullet]

I love to check the pulse of my rifles.

 

[Intheshop]

Man I love the way 4895 recoils,there just doesn't seem to be that SLAP/torque that faster powders have.....at least up past 2200 fps.It only gets slappy in 30-06's when really running them hard.