Recommendation? Neck Sizer with bushings

[Dimner]

Well, it's gotten to the point where I can justify the purchase of a neck sizing die with interchangeable bushings.

So what does the group here think would be the best brand/model to get? I'll be using it for 30 cal cases (and 7.7) for both Jacketed and PC bullets. All rifles are bolt or single shot. At best, I'm looking to stay at MOA or .75MOA. So no need for anything uber fancy to get below that.

I don't have a mill, so I will not be able to make my own bushings. I'll need to stick to MFG available bushings.

 

[BudHyett]

The simple Redding bushing die works well for me. there are many bushings. Buy the die without the micrometer setting, the micrometer head is a waste of money.

Type S Bushing Die

Redding Bushing Die Chart.

 

[Dimner]

Thanks Bud, I'm looking at those right now.

I should mention that this tool is only so I can control neck tension without. Maybe I'm barking up the wrong tree here, but it's my understanding that it's better to neck size (with a bushing if necessary) to the appropriate neck tension rather than size down small and then expand to the appropriate neck tension.

 

[Ian]

RCBS gold medal match full-length bushing dies work for me. I think it's Forster that makes a shoulder bump plus bushing neck die which would be really handy, so do your research and buy the tool to do exactly the process you need because I don't think the bushings are interchangeable between brands and are spendy.

Low-node shooting gets away with just neck sizing but for full-power loads you need to bump that shoulder back a couple thousandths to keep bolt thrust load to normal levels.

Forster Benchrest in-line seating dies are second to none in the 7/8X14 threaded variety. Like Bud said, skip the micrometer unit, not needed.

 

[Rick H]

I use the plain Redding die with bushing for my 6mm Remington.

 

[popper]

Just adding a comment/question. Yup, most die squeeze them down and then you expand back up, hard on the brass. But maybe brass necks should be sized for chamber neck and neck tension? Necks turned? You size the OD of the neck, not ID. My question, what is the breakpoint $/MOA on brass processing tools?

 

[BudHyett]

Maybe I'm barking up the wrong tree here, but it's my understanding that it's better to neck size (with a bushing if necessary) to the appropriate neck tension rather than size down small and then expand to the appropriate neck tension.

I've done both the expander button size down and up and bushing dies. Bushing dies are the best for ease of usage and results.

I go one step further by neck turning the cases each Spring to assure even pressure. The wall thickness is .015 with 75% cleanup as the acceptance criteria. Any cases not giving 75% cleanup is scrapped. Lapua cases are so uniform in neck thickness that I've quit wasting time neck turning the Lapua cases.

Shooting competition requires 300 cases for the monthly and then the National Matches. We are load a hundred round box full for each match as the season progresses and take 300 rounds to the Nationals. I am now selecting cases for the coming year with annealing, case trimming, neck turning, and primer pocket gauging.

 

[RicinYakima]

My question, what is the breakpoint $/MOA on brass processing tools?

There is no breakpoint. Do you want to take every advantage to win matches? or not?

 

[david s]

Only a single bushing die in 17 Fireball, it's a Redding and works well. Normally if needed I just use the standard neck size dies as made by RCBS or Redding. Some cases (30-30 and 35 Rem) for a T/C contender just use a full-length sizing die that has been backed off enough to not touch the case shoulder.

 

[popper]

OP said he only wanted MOA or maybe better. My point xactly, need more than a neck sizer to win matches.

 

[Dimner]

If the only difference between sizing with bushings vs sizing & expanding is brass life and/or strain on the brass.... ill just stick with the latter method. I already have the money invested in expansion, plenty of brass on hand, and I'm not even competing in matches. Sounds like what I am doing will be just fine.

Only reason I was at this decision nexus was I had a new sizing die I needed to buy. So I'll just stick with the back off the die/shoulder bump method.

 

[Ian]

If the only difference between sizing with bushings vs sizing & expanding is brass life and/or strain on the brass.... ill just stick with the latter method.

Umm, no. The point is to reduce tolerances and present the bullet to the bore's center line much as possible. Not going to achieve either goal with a full length sizing die and neck expander.

 

[Dimner]

Umm, no. The point is to reduce tolerances and present the bullet to the bore's center line much as possible. Not going to achieve either goal with a full length sizing die and neck expander.

Good to know.

Will a bushing neck die help get to that center line without neck turning? Or is a bushing neck die kind of pointless without uniformity of neck thickness? Basically I'm trying to figure out how much I want to dive into this or just keep on what I'm doing.

 

[Ian]

Think about what happens when you size a neck well below what you require and then stretch it back out again without supporting any part of the case body. Also think about where the bullet sits in relation to the bore center line if the case fits the chamber closely and the outside of neck and body are concentric, but the inside of the neck is not.

One of your first purchases should be a cartridge concentricity gauge so you can actually see where your problems are....and are not....and correct your loading processes with upgraded tooling where required.

 

[BudHyett]

Will a bushing neck die help get to that center line without neck turning? Or is a bushing neck die kind of pointless without uniformity of neck thickness? Basically I'm trying to figure out how much I want to dive into this or just keep on what I'm doing.

The goal is the elimination of fliers or minimizing how far out they go. The neck turning is a bonus in my experience. If you do not neck turn, you push the uneven thickness inward with more pressure on one side when the bullet starts the journey down the barrel. I also chamfer the inside of the neck to aid the bullet in alignment when seating.

Will this show in grouping, I get fewer fliers. Also depends on how accurate your chamber is and your other reloading techniques. Unwittingly I bought Lapua brass many years ago and discovered their neck thickness is very uniform. When I first turned them, I was occasionally taking less than .001 off one side. Not worth the effort with Lapua brass.

In contrast, W-W and R-P brass would vary from .017 to .014 for neck thickness in the same lot number. Neck turning these brands results in some cases being scrapped.

Sometimes, I wonder how we do as well as we do.

 

[popper]

I've no skin in this game, the reason I posted the $/MOA. Ian is correct in his statements, just how much difference does it make at the target? I firmly believe that a 'good' off the shelf rifle will do MOA easily and being a minimalist, with just reasonable loading of cast. I use Lee dies except for the AR10 and that is RCBS. My press is a plain Lee classic cast. Generally use cases til they fail.

 

[RicinYakima]

Shooting matches, I am looking for 0.005" differences over a 200 shot match.

 

[Spindrift]

This test of various dies and presses was performed by an experienced writer/reloader in a Norwegian gun magazine.He started with measuring run-out in fire- formed Lapua cases (no run-out). Then he sized the brass, and measured runout again.



The main trends was
- dies with expander buttons will make more concentric necks if you remove the expander
- that Lee collet die is doing a pretty good job, and can actually stand up to some quite expensive tools

Most of my neck sizing is done with collet dies, and the Lee «nut cracker» hand press. This is tested in the 3rd column of the chart. I like this combination. The hand press has a very well defined «stop». I think this helps in producing consistent tension. So I prefer the hand press for this job, even if I have 3 other bench-mounted presses available.

 

[462]

I considered mentioning Lee collet neck sizing dies, but Dimner asked about bushing dies.

Qualifier: I'm not a competition shooter.

Way back in the last century, I discovered that by ignoring Lee's instructions I could get whatever amount of neck tension I wanted.

 

[Rockydoc]

Way back in the last century, I discovered that by ignoring Lee's instructions I could get whatever amount of neck tension I wanted.

Please expound upon that.