Rethinking a bit

Brad

Benevolent Overlord and site owner
Staff member
Shot up some ammo I “inherited” from Paul. Load was a Lee 240 RN over 5.2 gr of Trailboss in 44 special. I had 50 rounds of it to shoot so off I went with the 624 in tow.

Blew my mind how well it shot. Granted this was only 7 yard but I was shocked.
I may need to look into getting this mould.
I have a few pounds of TB on hand so that isn’t an issue.
 

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462

California's Central Coast Amid The Insanity
Brad,
Does your 624 have .432" cylinder throats and .430" grooves?
Mine does, and I've lapped a Lyman 429421 two-banger to .433", to accommodate. Because of that, I've remain leery of getting a differently designed mould and having to revisit the lapping process.
 

Brad

Benevolent Overlord and site owner
Staff member
I am sizing to .432. No idea on barrel dimensions, never measured it.
I don’t even know what these bullets were sized to, they did not lead at all.
I mostly use an NOE version of he HG 503 that goes close to 265 gr and Titegroup. Shoots pretty well for me.

I really do believe that the curved transition from nose to full diameter makes a difference. The self centering nature of that nose design does it.
 

462

California's Central Coast Amid The Insanity
Arsenal reproduces that design, and I have drooled over it for many years. But, the reality is the 429421 kills paper as dead as I want.
 

Brad

Benevolent Overlord and site owner
Staff member
I have a 429421 but it casts undersized. It also suffers from being a 2 cav while the NOE is a 4 cav.
I have a Lee group buy 429421 but it drops more like .435 and I don’t like sizing down that much.
 
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462

California's Central Coast Amid The Insanity
Man, that mould produces some overly obese bullets.
 

fiver

Well-Known Member
pretty sure there was no 432 sizer in the pile.
430 I seem to kind of recall but nothing that made me go ehhh?
 

Brad

Benevolent Overlord and site owner
Staff member
These were all sized in a Lyman or RCBS, the telltale nose ring is a dead giveaway.
 

StrawHat

Well-Known Member
I have found RN bullets provide excellent accuracy. Cow patty shaped holes make for tough scoring. I played with Keiths and other SWC bullets but have settled on DEWC as what is best for me for most applications from hunting to protection.

Kevin
 

CZ93X62

Official forum enigma
In the late Ken Waters' "Pet Loads" article on The 32/20 WCF In Revolvers, he goes into some detail about his belief that shoulderless round-nose bullet design tends to "center itself" within the bore in revolvers whose chamber-to-bore alignment might not be ideal. Extending Mr. Waters' logic stream a bit, I would submit the shoulderless round-flat-nose designs (e.g., Lymans #311008, #401043, #427098) might accrue similar benefits.

I was quite the Elmer Keith acolyte when I was younger and trying to absorb the wisdom of more experienced folks--both those around me and the writers of the day (mid-1970s). I have always had the advantage through good luck to acquire revolvers with decent throat-to-barrel alignments. That IMO is a key element to success with the sharp-shouldered SWC bullet design.

Now for the Heresy Portion of today's bull consciousness-raising session--I also think that heavier-for-caliber--or more properly, longer-for-caliber bullets have a better chance of being accurate in revolvers than the lighter/shorter bullet weights do. With at least two dozen examples I have owned and run over the years in 38 Special and 357 Magnum calibers, I have consistently gotten noticeably better accuracy from 140-200 grain bullets than I have derived from the 110-125 grain bullets--both jacketed and cast, and in barrel lengths from 2"-7.5". Similar tendencies seem to hold true for 30/32, 41. 44, and 45 caliber wheelguns as well--though I don't have as large a database to draw upon in those calibers. My theory, FWIW--with these longer bullets there is enough full-caliber length to enable good engravement of the front driving body into the rifling origin prior to release of the bullet base from support of the cylinder throat, this preserving alignment of center-of-bullet-form with centerline-of-bore. I have been called hard names by the Jello Cadre and other velocity enthusiasts for saying such things, but that lot is hard to take seriously anyway.
 

Brad

Benevolent Overlord and site owner
Staff member
I agree entirely IF the revolver has good alignment. My SRH proved this to me time and time again.
I designed a bullet, thanks to Tom at Accurate for his excellent work, that maximized exactly that alignment.
Problem is that if the cylinder throat is even slightly misaligned with the bore then the nose gets held Off center because the base of the bullet is still in cylinder Throat. My bullets showed decidedly off center rifling marks, one side showed the bands smeared significantly while the other appeared normal.

In my abundant spare time I need to fit a new cylinder hand that is a bit thinner than the original. That will allow for some cylinder rotation on firing so the cylinder can rotate to better align with the bore.
 

RicinYakima

High Steppes of Eastern Washington
FWIW, I don't think a soft lead bullet with 12,000 to 20,000 psi behind it is going to "rotate" a cylinder of 100X the mass any where in microseconds.

If it isn't aligned with the powder goes off, the bullet will stay in what ever orientation it was laying in the chamber.

There is a reason Freedom Arms revolvers shoot more accurately than Rugers.

Sticking to this opinion unless some one can prove you can make a cylinder rotate from ignition till the bullet is in the barrel.
 

Rick

Moderator
Staff member
The theory is that powder gases exiting the throat ahead of the bullet will spin the cylinder into alignment. I can't prove that it does or doesn't but I do think much like Ric. In microseconds? And who's to say that if it does spin the cylinder that it will spin it in a direction that will make you happy?
 

RicinYakima

High Steppes of Eastern Washington
My most accurate revolver loads are +.0005" larger than the throat. There is no gas exiting ahead of the base. If you don't have to seat it with your thumb, it is too small. I got this from reading about a guy named "Rick" on the LASC web page.
 
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Brad

Benevolent Overlord and site owner
Staff member
Well I can assure you that an FA is not in my future.
The SRH will just learn to shoot a different bullet.
 

Ian

Notorious member
Even .38 wadcutters at 700 fps muzzle velocity will shave and "spit lead" if the cylinder isn't aligned. Pretty much any revolver situation is going to have the bullet contacting the forcing cone at around 500 fps and near peak pressure, fwiw.
 
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Ian

Notorious member
Well I can assure you that an FA is not in my future.
The SRH will just learn to shoot a different bullet.

I still think that bullet would do better for you with a much lighter load. You could probably shoot it better, too with less recoil, I know I could. My Smiff did ok with those at 50 and 75, but my overall impression was that they were too heavy.